Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
In this episode of the Training Impact Podcast, Jeff Walter sits down with Kevin Moran, Chief Development Officer at Blaze Pizza, for a conversation that goes far beyond traditional franchise development.
What emerges is a perspective shaped not by linear career progression, but by curiosity, cross-functional thinking, and a relentless desire to understand how businesses actually work.
Kevin’s story begins in finance, but it does not stay there for long. Early in his career, he found himself asking questions that most analysts never pursue.
Instead of accepting numbers at face value, he wanted to understand what was driving them. That instinct pulled him into operations, into conversations with frontline teams, and into the mechanics behind performance.
Over time, that curiosity created a unique capability. Kevin was no longer just interpreting data.
He was connecting finance, operations, marketing, and strategy into a single, cohesive understanding of how a business grows. That foundation ultimately led him into franchise development, a role where that kind of perspective becomes incredibly powerful.
One of the most compelling themes in the conversation is the value of cross-functional expertise. In many organizations, careers are built within a single discipline.
People specialize, deepen their knowledge, and move upward within that lane. Kevin’s experience challenges that model.
Franchise development, as he describes it, is not simply about selling locations.
It is about helping potential partners understand a complete business system. That includes how unit economics evolve as more locations are added, how operational decisions impact profitability, and how market dynamics influence long-term success.
Because Kevin understands these interconnected elements, he can engage franchise candidates in a fundamentally different way.
He can answer their financial questions with confidence, explain operational realities without abstraction, and help them see how scaling actually works in practice.
This capability also extends to evaluating franchise partners. Rather than treating every investor the same, Blaze Pizza takes a more nuanced approach.
Some partners bring deep operational experience but lack financial sophistication.
Others understand real estate and capital deployment but need support in execution. By recognizing these differences, the organization can tailor its approach to training and support, creating stronger partnerships from the outset.
When Kevin joined Blaze Pizza, he quickly recognized that the brand had reached an inflection point.
The original concept, centered around fast, customizable pizza, had been highly successful. It offered speed, quality, and a differentiated experience at a time when those elements stood out.
But the market had changed. Competitors had adopted similar models, customer expectations had evolved, and digital ordering had fundamentally altered how people interact with restaurants. The conditions that once made Blaze distinctive were no longer enough to sustain its momentum.
This realization led to what Kevin describes as a shift toward Blaze 2.0. Rather than making incremental adjustments, the company took a step back and reevaluated its entire operating model. This included everything from store design and equipment to labor structures and customer flow.
What makes this approach notable is its willingness to challenge assumptions.
Even core elements of the brand, such as the role of the oven or the layout of the make line, were reconsidered. The goal was not to preserve tradition, but to build a model that reflects how customers behave today.
At the center of this transformation is Ignite by Blaze, a working restaurant designed to function as a live innovation environment.
Unlike traditional test kitchens, this location operates under real conditions, serving real customers throughout the day.
Inside this environment, Blaze Pizza experiments with new ideas across every dimension of the business. Equipment configurations are tested. Digital ordering systems are refined.
Labor models are adjusted. Customer experience elements are introduced and evaluated. What makes this approach especially effective is its grounding in reality.
Rather than relying on theoretical models or limited pilot programs, Blaze observes how actual customers respond. The feedback is immediate, unfiltered, and highly actionable.
Kevin is clear that not every experiment succeeds.
In fact, many do not. But those outcomes are not seen as failures. They are considered essential data points that inform better decisions. By understanding what does not work and why, the organization avoids making costly mistakes at scale.
A significant driver of Blaze Pizza’s evolution is the rise of digital ordering.
With a growing percentage of transactions occurring online, the traditional in-store experience is no longer the primary touchpoint for many customers. This shift introduces new complexities.
In many restaurants, digital orders disrupt the flow of in-person service, creating friction for both employees and customers. Blaze has responded by rethinking how orders are processed and fulfilled.
Instead of forcing all orders through a single system, the company is exploring ways to separate digital and in-store workflows.
This allows each channel to operate more efficiently, improving speed and reducing bottlenecks. The broader implication is clear.
The restaurant is no longer just a physical space. It is part of a larger, integrated system that includes mobile apps, delivery platforms, and evolving consumer expectations. Brands that fail to adapt to this reality risk falling behind.
Another important evolution is Blaze’s move away from a one-size-fits-all approach to store design.
Historically, many franchise systems have relied on standardized formats, replicating the same model across all locations. Blaze is taking a different path.
Recognizing that each market presents unique conditions, the company is developing multiple formats tailored to specific environments. This includes smaller urban footprints, travel-oriented locations, and formats designed primarily for digital orders.
This flexibility creates new opportunities for growth.
It allows Blaze Pizza to enter markets that may not support a traditional store and to optimize performance based on local demand. It also improves the financial equation for franchisees by reducing capital requirements and accelerating returns.
Kevin’s experience in international markets adds another layer of insight to the conversation.
Expanding beyond domestic borders introduces a new set of challenges, from cultural differences to regulatory requirements and supply chain complexities. His perspective is grounded in practicality.
Brands must understand how their product translates across cultures, how local consumers behave, and how far they are willing to adapt without losing their identity. Success depends not on rigid consistency, but on thoughtful alignment between brand standards and local expectations.
Equally important is the selection of partners.
Strong local operators bring knowledge that cannot be replicated from a distance. Without that expertise, even well-established brands can struggle to gain traction.
Throughout the discussion, one theme continues to surface: curiosity.
It is the thread that connects Kevin’s career, his leadership style, and Blaze Pizza’s approach to innovation.
Curiosity drives better questions, deeper understanding, and more informed decisions.
It encourages leaders to challenge assumptions and explore alternatives. It also creates a culture where learning is continuous and improvement is expected.
In an environment where change is constant, this mindset becomes a significant competitive advantage.
This conversation offers a clear and practical perspective on what it takes to scale a modern franchise brand. Kevin Moran’s approach reflects a shift toward systems that are adaptable, data-driven, and grounded in real-world performance.
Blaze Pizza’s evolution demonstrates that growth is not just about expansion, but about continuously refining how the business operates and delivers value.
For more from the Training Impact Podcast, follow us on Social Media
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For more information on Blaze Pizza, visit their website
https://www.blazepizza.com/
Episode Transcript
Jeff Walter (00:00)
Hi, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome to the Training Impact Podcast where we explore scaling channel performance through training infrastructure. My guest today is Kevin Moran. Kevin is the Chief Development Officer over at Blaze Pizza. He is a seasoned financial strategy and business planning professional with an extensive experience in multiple industries. Kevin, welcome to the podcast.
Kevin Moran (00:21)
Hey Jeff, thanks for having me.
Jeff Walter (00:23)
Yeah,
so Kevin, as my viewers know, first thing I’d to start off with is the autobiographical. How did you end up as Chief Development Officer over Blaze? What got you there? And let’s hear the story of the journey that got you there. Because we all start with humble beginnings.
Kevin Moran (00:35)
Sure,
Yeah, no, I get it. So I started out my career in finance. And I had what we call ⁓ insatiable curiosity. And I always wanted to know like,
What was driving the number? Where did it come from? It wasn’t just a number on a piece of paper to me, whether it was a sales number or a cost number or whatever it may have been. And so I started to dig around and I started to talk to ops people and the manufacturers and those types of things to understand what’s driving the number. And so I started to bridge the gap between ops and finance. And in doing so, it really helped catapult a very unique
position for me. actually, up until probably about five years ago, I’ve been creating my own job inside of an organization because I have the skill set to be in finance. I have the skill set to be in operations. I have a skill set to understand large databases and those types of things. So putting all together creates a pretty good strategy platform, strategist platform. And so in doing so, ⁓ I really started to be able to condense
Jeff Walter (01:35)
Right.
Kevin Moran (01:42)
and consolidate a lot of information quickly. And I was going to the executive heads at a very young age saying, did you know this? Have you seen this? Did you know that this is what was happening at this manufacturing plant or at this particular food vendor or whatever it may be? And so I really got into the strategy side of things. And then building on the strategy side, it just eventually has evolved to, Kevin, you should be.
Promoting the brands you should be promoting you should be in sales, right? And having you know having the background of all the other intricate pieces
you know, chief development officer isn’t just sales. You know, I’m also responsible for real estate. I’m also responsible for design and construction. also responsible for, I’ll say compliance, right? Legal and compliance matters, because, you know, there’s certain things that you just hope don’t get into those matters, but they may. And so having that background has really opened up the door probably about 12, about 12 years ago at Focus Brands, which is now called Go To Foods, where I was,
Jeff Walter (02:27)
Right.
Kevin Moran (02:44)
the director of finance and I moved into the international side of the business and things just took off and I had lived internationally for a while so it was something that I had been a part of and knew and so it wasn’t like a literally a foreign land to me and I took the international footprint over at Fookett’s Brands from about 1,100 units in 2015 and I left with 2,200 units opened.
Jeff Walter (02:58)
Thank you.
Wow. Wow.
Kevin Moran (03:14)
in 2022
in seven years and across 60 countries. So ⁓ that really was the springboard. And then some folks that I was working with saw some opportunities over here at Blaze and said, hey, Kevin, we really like what you’ve been doing over at Go To Foods. Can you help us one, grow our footprint internationally? But then can you also help us?
Jeff Walter (03:19)
Holy smokes.
Kevin Moran (03:35)
penetrate some of the white space and there’s quite a bit of white space still for Blaze even for this category inside the United States. So that’s really kind of how this all evolved. While I am the Chief Development Officer, wear…
Jeff Walter (03:41)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (03:48)
many, many different hats at many, many different levels. I am not afraid to talk to the guy that’s making a pizza to understand how does that oven work for you, what’s good, what’s bad, to the level of my head of marketing over on the digital side saying how does this work and we’re buying, we’re paying for this media. This is paid media, this is social, this is, so I’m really vested in understanding the full complete picture because how could I sell Jeff Walter ⁓ a franchise if I didn’t know it?
Jeff Walter (04:16)
Right.
Kevin Moran (04:17)
And so I know it. I know the ins and the outs. And I don’t sugarcoat things, but I also don’t shy away from the hard questions.
Jeff Walter (04:25)
You know, that’s very fascinating. And you said something and you touched over it briefly, but in that whole journey, there was something that made me go, huh. Like, you start on the finance side, then you start going upstream to say, well, what’s causing the numbers? The operation, you know, the numbers are a result of the operations. You start getting into the operations. But then you said, hey, somebody said I’d be really good. I should really get into the development side.
And that’s not something you usually connect with finance and operations. Like you just kind of said it in a quick sentence. Why do you think that was that somebody saw in you going, hey, you’ve got this really good understanding of the operations because you’re a curious guy. And you’ve got this really understanding of the economics, the finances and the economics of what we’re doing. You’re a natural fit to go do, you know, do development.
Like most folks would say that there’s a disconnect there, those are, know, like that is not what most folks would think. So why did you, why so I’m curious, why do you think that that connection was made? Cause that kind of turned the ship.
Kevin Moran (05:24)
He
Yeah,
well, so some of the analysis that I was doing on the forefront of just franchising in general and especially internationally, there’s a propensity to…
One, not understand how a certain country just operates. And what are their cultural norms? What are their purchasing habits? What are their flavor profiles? Whatever it may be. And then you start talking to folks that are in this business or want to be in this business. And they’re wealthy people, and so they have questions about the numbers.
Jeff Walter (05:51)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Kevin Moran (06:10)
And then they want to know how do those numbers equate to me opening one restaurant, 10 restaurants, 100 restaurants, whatever it may be. And you know, I saw during my analysis, I saw this kind of trajectory in our sales pipeline that was, I don’t want to say nascent because it was certainly there to be filled, but there wasn’t an individual.
that could fill it at every stage during the pipeline. And so I started to identify that with my boss to be at the time. And I’m like, listen, our deal sit in this, we’ll call it category four, exponential period of time, because it takes us time to get in front of finance to talk about how the unit level economics work and how these models come together and how you can start to see synergies in your cost savings because now you’re on your third restaurant. And we had to wait for finance to find time.
Jeff Walter (06:32)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (07:01)
to talk to these people that are investing millions of dollars in Singapore, in the Philippines, in India, you name it, wherever. And as we know, time kills all deals, right? And so I just started to say, we’ve got to figure out a way. And he’s like, well, why don’t you do it? He goes, you know it.
Jeff Walter (07:01)
Right.
Right.
Kevin Moran (07:19)
And so I started stepping in and so then we saw the leading indicator of that one spot being kind of the log jam starting to go away. We see deals starting to come through quicker. Now Kevin’s asking his people in the field to have different things aligned and understood in line so that when we have these conversations we can move better. And it was just a natural progression from there to pick up those moving pieces to be kind of
Jeff Walter (07:19)
Huh.
Kevin Moran (07:45)
the one-stop shop. And I’m not saying I’m so grand that I’m the one-stop shop, but we were building a one-stop shop on that international team that could do all the stuff, that knew all the legal questions, knew why that verbiage was in that contract for that reason, knew exactly why you wanted to open up on these particular parameters to launch a market within your country, why we wanted you to buy certain things from our supply chain and not do it locally, why we wanted the numbers to, like, and we
Jeff Walter (08:01)
Well, understand.
Kevin Moran (08:15)
you can talk to someone that’s writing you big checks in that kind of detail and I don’t want to say I was training or teaching a lot of them a lot about the business that they thought they knew that they didn’t but I felt that the the people that I had real good growth with and real good relationships with it was a very well received I was offering them a whole lot more than just a brand
Jeff Walter (08:18)
Right, right.
Kevin Moran (08:38)
And they were taking in a whole lot more than just getting a brand. But then they were also offering me a whole lot more knowledge about international development, their particular country, the challenges that the people in the Philippines have compared to the people in Brazil have compared to the people in Canada have, whatever it may be. And so it was a perfect kind of, you know,
ingredients to build great relationships. And my boss at that particular time said, Kevin, I’d really like for you to be the head of strategy here from the international side. And then from there, it’s just grown. again, it was never to your point, was never two dots that you would say those should be connected. It was me just being curious into what was going on.
Jeff Walter (09:15)
Yeah.
Well, you know, that’s really, that’s really interesting because I think most people and I think most career guidance kind of, you know, it’s kind of like, ⁓ as soon as you’re going to get into a functional area and then you’re just going to ride that to the top. we really, think generally discount the value of cross-functional expertise. But then as I’m listening to what you’re saying, it’s like, well, I’m trying to get partners to come in and invest with us. and, and.
And basically you’ve got that ground level cross-functional knowledge that goes down into the, not only how we’re going to drive leads in there and we’re going to do the local grassroots marketing, but here’s the operations, here’s the finances. If you do this, if you get one, two, three, 10 units, here’s where you start to get some economies of scale. And that’s how you can, like, I think we underplay a lot in our
know, pop culture, the value of cross functionality. Because you’re always thinking like, started at junior marketing analyst and then become a marketing analyst, senior, and I’m going up in my function. And we always, a lot of times we think of people that go from one function to another as, they’re kind of stalling their career, but they’re.
Kevin Moran (10:30)
It’s
really funny to say that because I am a graduate of the GE Capital Management Development Program in the early 90s.
Jeff Walter (10:40)
really?
Kevin Moran (10:41)
Yeah. And that was a really,
Jeff Walter (10:41)
the Jack, the Jack, the Jack, yeah.
Kevin Moran (10:43)
it’s a very prestigious program and it’s a two year rotational program. And there’s people that join that program and it’s based into four, six month rotations. And that’s actually where I got my first taste of international. did a nine month rotation in the UK and live there as a call center, collection call center manager. But I chose the path in that management program to do a rotation in underwriting, to do a rotation in customer service.
Jeff Walter (10:45)
Yes.
Kevin Moran (11:10)
to do a rotation in, boy I’m drawing a blank, in finance and I can’t remember the last ones but four completely different rotations and there’s folks that join that program to your point says I’m gonna do marketing and marketing and marketing and marketing and then I’m gonna be this marketing guru when I come out of there which is fine.
Jeff Walter (11:14)
Right.
Kevin Moran (11:27)
I think I did a rotation. I would call it IT, but it wasn’t like code writing and stuff like that IT, but it was using sophisticated systems. And that’s where I got into database management and understanding tables, charts, and those types of things. And so you know.
Jeff Walter (11:31)
All right.
Kevin Moran (11:48)
taking that approach, the question always was, what is my boss going to ask me next when I tell him or her, this is what I’m seeing? Well, why? Where does that? Who does that? Why is that number like that? Who made that decision? How did this happen? And so I really started to get ahead of the curve. And so then I was spending more time talking to the other functions than I was actually doing finance, because a lot of these companies have very good financial systems where you can get a P &L quickly. You can get your, you know, you can
Jeff Walter (11:57)
Right.
Kevin Moran (12:18)
get your COGS reports, you can get all these different things very quickly, but if you don’t know how to look at it and say, why is that? What happened? And if you don’t know one who to go talk to or the answer to it because you didn’t go mine it yourself.
what value are you really adding? You’re just literally pushing paper off of your desk onto someone else’s and you put 10 check marks on it. And that’s just something that I wasn’t really comfortable doing and I just kept asking questions after questions and then I started sitting in meetings when I was the youngest kid in meetings by 25 years because they would ask questions and they knew that I would have…
the best answer, even though it might not have been the full answer from a lot of people within the organization. And it just started to kind of launch me. It was great.
Jeff Walter (13:03)
That is really cool. And something, as I’ve been talking to folks about building the franchise development system for franchise, that has almost never come up. What I hear you saying is, in that function, you’re really well served to have that cross-functional knowledge. It’s usually thought of more like a B2B sales role, right? ⁓ Because you’re trying to get another
Kevin Moran (13:24)
Right.
Jeff Walter (13:28)
you know, investor or business or person that wants to be in business to join you. so it sounds like it has served you and the organizations you’ve been affiliated with exceedingly well by having that cross-functional knowledge.
Kevin Moran (13:44)
It
has but I’ll be honest with you the biggest piece that’s really paid off is now I know who I am
getting in a partnership with, and I know that Jeff really doesn’t understand operations well, but Jeff is a real estate guru and Jeff knows the corner of Maine and Maine and the entire area that he’s looking to build in. So now I know that Jeff needs different type of training than Mary needs, who has been in operations her entire life and doesn’t really understand real estate. Okay, great. So now I even understand my partner better so that I can tailor what I think they need or don’t need in the relationship
Jeff Walter (14:09)
Right.
Kevin Moran (14:22)
grow the business as well.
Jeff Walter (14:24)
And that’s because I think the jump there was you have the cross-functional knowledge, so you’re able to evaluate, how’s Jeff on finances? How’s Jeff on operations? How’s Jeff on marketing? How’s Jeff on managing people? How’s Jeff on this? And you’re able to sit there and go, well, Jeff’s a good candidate because he fits our ideal candidate profile.
Kevin Moran (14:38)
Right.
Across all of them, even better,
for sure.
Jeff Walter (14:46)
But over
here, he’s really more of an operations guy, not a sales and marketing guy. Or he’s great at that, and he’s got this personality, but he’s never managed a P &L in his life. So on the unit economic side, that’s where, and then therefore I know he’s the right type of person, but we really need to make sure we give him support here. Is that what I’m, very, very cool.
Kevin Moran (14:53)
Right.
100 % and listen, I’m not
trying to brag on myself or whatnot but…
Jeff Walter (15:16)
No.
Kevin Moran (15:16)
The organization that I had at my previous life and here, everybody on my team here can do everybody else’s job on my team. So my design and construction head can do some real estate things. Is she as good as my real estate guy? No. But is my real estate guy as good as she is at design and construction? No. But they can both do each other’s jobs. Our lead salesman, he can do all three of those jobs. But is he the best? No, he’s at the best of what he does. every one of us, and then our compliance officer is phenomenal.
Jeff Walter (15:34)
No.
Kevin Moran (15:44)
and she knows and she could do any one of those jobs. So we’re all kind of a hybrid. We have our niche, but we’re all part of a hybrid. And I’m not saying I demand that. That’s just, I find myself finding people that want to have that, again, back that insatiable curiosity. And because it just helps us across the board every day.
Jeff Walter (16:03)
You know, it’s that’s interesting because I was I was literally just talking to somebody about the curiosity and with curiosity comes humility. The humility is I know I don’t know everything and I’m going to ask the dumb questions because I don’t know the answer and it’s okay to ask dumb questions because I want to know. I’m curious how that happened.
And that’s really cool. That’s really cool. So, okay, so now you’re at Blaze Pizza, which I love Blaze Pizza. There was one in Ann Arbor a little while ago. ⁓ So what’s the challenge? What are you trying to accomplish with Blaze as the Chief Development Officer? Now that we kind of got your philosophy down of, you know,
Kevin Moran (16:31)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (16:55)
What’s the goal? What are you trying to, what’s the big challenge you’re facing?
Kevin Moran (17:00)
Great question, Jeff. And it really evolves back to kind of the things we just talked about. So I’ve been here for three years, and the brand is 12 years old. And it’s time for…
Reincarnation is a big word that’s a little bit too big. But there’s a Blaze 2.0 that needs to start to happen. The original novelty of the brand, the build your own concept, go down the line. When you think about it, that’s when Giappolte was down the line. That’s when Cava and all these other brands are doing all this down the line stuff. And we were when we were pizza. And you can get a pizza 180 seconds. That was great novelty. And by the way, it’s a great pizza on top of it. It wasn’t like a disc.
Jeff Walter (17:26)
Right.
Kevin Moran (17:39)
pizza to get that service? No. But yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, and the ingredients are clean. I mean, it’s a very good, healthy alternative, to be honest with you. So we took a step back. I took a step back and I said, okay, well, if I’m here for Blaze 2.0…
Jeff Walter (17:41)
That was actually a premium pizza. It’s delicious.
Right.
Kevin Moran (17:59)
what is working, what’s not working, why, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so we sat back and we evaluated this company and its operations and its franchisees and its product for a good nine months while you’re still doing a hundred, changing the tire, so to speak, right? And ⁓ we found a lot of things. We found a lot of gaps that just don’t correlate in a post COVID world or needed to change in a post COVID world or a
Jeff Walter (18:17)
Right.
Kevin Moran (18:28)
technological world that was 12 years ago that’s not here today, that is here today, that wasn’t here then, etc, etc, etc. So we started to look at the unit itself and we looked at the size of it. We looked at the oven. The oven is the heartbeat of the brand. Is it? I don’t know. Well, let’s look at it. Let’s understand what is this about. It’s a big piece of equipment. It requires you to have exponentially more…
Jeff Walter (18:33)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (18:53)
square footage because of the size of it. People love to see their pizza go in the oven and come out, which is great. Do people know that the person that makes your pizza is a highly paid individual as opposed to the other folks that are in that store? Is this the right oven going towards for the future? Is there labor savings that can be had with a different oven? All these different types of things. We start to look at it. We look at the digital footprint. We look at the store and we say, okay, well, 30 % of our stores
orders are placed online and picked up and or delivered by a third party. Okay, so they definitely don’t care about the oven, right? So should we have a different make line? Because I get really frustrated when I’m at a sandwich shop or a chicken place and I’m in line.
Jeff Walter (19:25)
Right, right.
Kevin Moran (19:35)
And all of a sudden, someone comes up from behind the person that’s supposed to be taking my order and drops three tickets in front of them. And they might give me one second. And they go make three sandwiches. And then they come back. Wait a second. Why did that online order get a preferential treatment over me? Should I have a second make line at a Blaze Pizza so all online orders go through a different oven, get made by a different person? Because Jeff can say, Kevin, what else, what else, what else, as I go down the line. Or Mary can make a pizza.
Jeff Walter (19:50)
All right.
Kevin Moran (20:05)
in the back that says these are the five things that are on the pizza because it came through on the ticket and make that pizza in 10 seconds. That’s how good they are. Get in an oven and all of a sudden I’m not holding up another line. So we started evaluating all these different moving pieces within the location itself, within the unit itself and then we saw technology.
And we saw digital menu boards and order, you where’s your orders being prepped, being fired. It’s done. So you didn’t have this anxiety. We sat around and wait, waited 180 seconds. Three minutes is a long time. When you’re sitting around, when you’ve already placed your order, you’ve paid and you’re kind of like, I have my drink. Should I go sit down? Is someone going to bring it to me? You know, there’s a lot of different moving pieces. And so we evaluated it and we said, you know what? The only thing we can do right now is put our money where our mouth is. And we, and we opened up a store and I can point cause
that’s this way from my office. As a crow flies about a mile and a half from here, and we call it Ignite by Blaze.
Jeff Walter (20:59)
Uh-huh.
Kevin Moran (20:59)
And it’s a customer facing innovation center. And so it’s a real restaurant all day, every day. And we run all innovation, whether it’s culinary innovation, design innovation, equipment innovation, technology innovation, labor model innovation, all goes through that location first. And we really kind of beat it up as much as we can. So then when we come to the franchisee and we say, this is something, if you’re feeling this pain in your restaurant, this is a fix for you. And it could be KIA.
I have a lunch crowd that doesn’t come in anymore because it sees the line that’s out the door and people are like, it’s going to take us 30 minutes just to place our order. Well, if people don’t see that line and they only see a few people, but they see a kiosk where they can go get it, I’ll come in. And so am I deterring traffic away by having that line?
But am I getting the traffic through that it’s capable? Because now the kiosk is a digital order, goes through that back make line, and now I’m not running it down the line. That’s the down the line ordering kind of process. So there’s a lot of different moving pieces that we started to evaluate. And every piece of innovation that’s in that Ignite store today is because of a reason we saw something wasn’t as good as it could be or should be. And so we’re coming out with playbooks all the time. And when things don’t work,
That is not a failure. That is absolutely 100 % success because now we know why it doesn’t work. Now we know why we don’t want to implement it. And now I am educating myself even more when I’m talking to my franchisee that says, hey, I want to do this. No, you don’t. Why? Because of X, Y, and Z. We tried that for three months up here, and it won’t work. Or it wasn’t receptive by the consumer. Or it’s cost prohibitive, or whatever it may be. And so now we’re getting really tactical in kind of the new store designs and what we believe
Jeff Walter (22:34)
All right.
Kevin Moran (22:44)
the next location in New York, the next location in Atlanta, the next location in Boston, the next location in Ann Arbor, Michigan. If we had this, maybe that one in Ann Arbor wouldn’t have closed, right?
Jeff Walter (22:54)
Yeah,
yeah, you know, you know, well, it’s interesting because you’re talking about the evolving tastes and that and I and and there’s that whole thought of the experience while you’re in the store. But then when you’re getting 30%, 40 % of your business coming just online orders and the store experience is not the not important. It’s the food. Yeah.
Kevin Moran (23:15)
important. It’s not, no. But again, now
we’ve got to look at and say okay, so we call it choose your way to blaze.
Jeff Walter (23:23)
Yeah.
Kevin Moran (23:23)
Okay,
well, can we be everywhere for everyone? If someone wants to call, can they call and get their blades that way? If someone wants to come in and sit down with their three kids after a baseball practice, can they do that? Can someone see me in an airport and get into 900 square feet and can they get their blades that way? someone like, so we’re really kind of, we’re really crunching the model to say, okay, what is our best position and what is our best go-to-market strategy by location? So it’s not necessarily one size fits all.
Jeff Walter (23:49)
Yeah.
Kevin Moran (23:52)
It’s really coming to the table. And by the way, I learned all this in my previous life because when you go international, footprints are a whole lot different, a whole lot smaller, and people are getting on trains. So how do I have a portable product? People are walking and people aren’t driving around the cities of Madrid and Paris. know what mean? Okay, so then how do I get street crowd? So you already had to make those brands that malleable, if that’s the right word, flexible.
Jeff Walter (24:10)
Right.
Right, or
flexible, yeah.
Kevin Moran (24:18)
Right, and so now, okay, well how do I get blazed into that environment and now can I take 30 % out of a capital build and get blazed into a 1400 to 1200 square foot unit, still have it be a million, five, two million dollar AUV, capital costs are half the amount, if not 30, 40 % less, now the payback’s faster, now I’ve solved another problem. Now I’m talking to people and say, hey, by the way, we have this, this, and this. We’re not just one size fits all cookie cutter.
Jeff Walter (24:46)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (24:47)
And by the way, there’s nothing wrong with those brands that have that because sometimes that’s tried and true success and that works for them and that’s okay. That’s just not what Blaze is about.
Jeff Walter (24:56)
Yeah, well, so a quick question on the Ignite by Blaze. Is the consumer aware that it’s an experimental store?
Kevin Moran (25:03)
Yes and no. ⁓ We convey it to them every once in a while. It’s not written anywhere. was in social media, come check out. We call it internally, we call it the incubator. didn’t think that was the greatest name to call it externally, but I think they’re getting it because we’re constantly asking for feedback.
Jeff Walter (25:04)
Okay.
Okay.
Right,
right.
Kevin Moran (25:23)
And
we’re letting them know that, by the way, this is new. What did you think of that experience? Did you like it? So we’re not trying to be over intrusive with someone that said, well, I ordered via the kiosk because, I didn’t want to talk to anybody. So why are you asking me questions? I don’t want to be talked to. You know what I mean? So you’ve got to balance it a little bit too, right? Because I can talk anybody’s ear off. And some people enjoy that and some people don’t.
Jeff Walter (25:35)
No.
Kevin Moran (25:46)
It’s gaining momentum in the sense that people understand that’s what we’re doing. Certainly, maybe the consumer might not, but other brands definitely know that that is what we’re doing.
Jeff Walter (25:56)
That’s really cool to have that type of beta.
out there in the marketplace and sitting there and trying things. And then I would assume, you know, as you get the different footprints and the different ways in which you’re getting your Blaze, you’re taking that model and replicating and going, well, here’s our Ignite by Blaze for, you know, a small 1200 square foot print or just an online order place only, you know, in a campus, you know, food court or whatever, you know, the…
Kevin Moran (26:29)
demographic
you’re serving, whether it’s students or you know whatever exactly.
Jeff Walter (26:31)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah,
that’s very interesting. So that’s on, mean, we were talking about kind of franchise development, but we got into the, developing the concept more and tweaking the concept. I think that’s really cool and interesting because a lot of folks…
especially on the emerging side, they forget about the continuing innovation and they just assume it’s going to happen and then it gets stale. Or you forego opportunities. It’s like we were doing this, we cookie-cutted 187 of them and then we kind of ran out of runway.
Kevin Moran (26:59)
Stay relevant.
Jeff Walter (27:10)
And it’s interesting that on the international side that you go like, well, hey, on the international side, we had to do that because of different norms and different cultures and different ways of doing things. in your pedestrian city, that’s, you know, having a storefront that assumes you’re driving up with your kids, three kids in the car, it’s not happening in downtown London, right? Or, you know, or even downtown New York for that matter, right? And then so many brands trying.
Kevin Moran (27:31)
No. Nope.
Jeff Walter (27:37)
try and cram that cookie cutter into it that kind of doesn’t work, right? You got to rethink it.
Kevin Moran (27:40)
can’t. Yeah,
we say it’s not blaze in India, it’s not blaze in Bahrain, it’s not blaze in El Salvador.
It’s Blaze El Salvador. It’s Blaze. So we want to bring the brand to how you want to Blaze in Bahrain. And if that means you want to have sit down, then we’re going to have Wi-Fi sit down. And that’s how it’s going to be. If it means that you want to be more of an express and you want it to be a Delco delivery and carry out, then that’s what we’re going to build. If you want to have different types of things on your pizza, right? You know, I certainly don’t want to kibosh. And what’s better for new toppings of any kind than pizza? you, when people put
Jeff Walter (28:04)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Kevin Moran (28:20)
pepperoni, pineapple on it. People are like, my god, you can’t do it. Well, now.
It’s not even considered a big deal anymore that you put pepperoni. So who’s to say that India is not going to come up with something that’s going to be different than somebody in Japan, than somebody in Bahrain, and someone in Saudi, whatever it may be. And we want to be where the brand needs to be for the people to enjoy the brand. Now, are we going to take all the guardrails off? No. You still got to have the base dough, the base ingredients that either match or are better than what you can get.
you know, from the U.S. So do I want you to have to buy, you know, our dough and our sauce and our cheese from the U.S. in Saudi Arabia? No, I don’t want you to. And we’re working with manufacturers all the time to recreate it the best that we can. But at some points we say, no, that’s good enough in the sense of that it’s good enough that it’s a really, really good pizza. And it doesn’t have to taste like blaze to a T. Like when you go to McDonald’s in Singapore, it tastes like McDonald’s in India. It tastes like McDonald’s, well, not even in India. McDonald’s everywhere else.
right? And that’s okay, but we don’t necessarily care that it does. It just has to be top of the line tasting pizza that you can’t get anywhere else.
Jeff Walter (29:22)
Right.
Yeah, well
the interesting thing about your brand is, and it’s kind of core to the brand itself is, is you’re creating your own pizza. That is like core, so the fact that you have all these different taste profiles is actually core to the mission as opposed to say McDonald’s where, look, ⁓ a Big Mac is a Big Mac is a Big Mac, and I want my Big Mac to taste like a Big Mac and not like not a Pig Mac because it’s a Big Mac and I want the Big Mac. And so that’s.
Kevin Moran (29:56)
Right.
Jeff Walter (29:59)
That’s really interesting. know, wow, man, time has flown. This has been a lot of If you were, let’s focus on the international for just a minute. You know, I was at the IFA convention a couple of weeks ago and I was talking to a bunch of emerging brands and that, and you know, a lot of them have a lot of hesitancy about going international, right? They’re like, got plenty of runway here in the US.
They don’t even want to go over to Canada, right? What would your advice be to say a developing brand? You Blaze is a big brand, lots and lots of units. But for more of the guys that are on the developing side, down around 100 units, let’s say, what would your advice be to them from an international? Do you sit and wait? Do you saturate the US? Do you dip your toe in it?
Kevin Moran (30:48)
Yeah.
No.
No, you don’t need to saturate the US to do it. I think you’ve got to look at your product first and just say, how well does that resonate with whatever countries I’m trying to go into? Is this something completely new that they have no idea what this even is? Am I bringing a pretzel to China and they don’t know what a pretzel even is? And how does that resonate? And when you look up pretzel or the definition of a pretzel, it’s called a butterfly biscuit. They don’t know how else to name it because it’s shaped like a butterfly. So anyway, how well do they know that? That would be the first thing I would try to understand.
Jeff Walter (31:15)
Ha
Kevin Moran (31:20)
And the second piece is you got to know your laws, right? And there’s a lot of countries where
The franchisee and the franchisor have different requirements. And some are very, very franchisor friendly, and some of them are very franchisee friendly. Not to say that it should deter you one way or the other, but there’s just certain things from a legal perspective that you’re going to have to do. And you’re going to have to disclose in a different way. You’re going to have to write contracts a little bit differently, et cetera, et cetera. And then the next biggest thing is how far are you willing to deviate, or how far do you need to deviate from your core pr-
Jeff Walter (31:42)
Okay.
Kevin Moran (31:55)
product, right? And so a brand I sold before is a very famous cinnamon roll company. The set of cinnamon has a B in it. we remastered some of the recipe because in Japan they wanted it to be more sweet, but they wanted it to be smaller.
Jeff Walter (32:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (32:12)
And
Korea, wanted it to be less sweet and bigger and et cetera, et cetera. So we were constantly revamping the brand itself. But then it was like, well, why do you have to buy the base mix all the way from the US and ship it all the way over there? So then we started working with manufacturers, know, the Nippons of the world and the Irexes of the world and all those different types, the Kents of the world and saying, OK, here’s our base mix. Here’s our proprietary product. Can you recreate this there? And they’re like, absolutely can. And then you got to, OK, well, does
water in India changed the way this base mix tastes? It does. Okay, well then let’s get that right. Does the milk out of here change the ice cream additives and all that different kind of stuff? You have to understand how far you’re willing to go, but you might say the products that we want them to import is next to nothing and the COGS will still be manageable. The importation and the duties and all those things that get put on it is nothing. It’s not a big deal you can still get from the US to still get what we would call the gold standard. You got to understand that. And then the last piece is it’s you have
Jeff Walter (32:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (33:11)
to be able to move in bed and how that country wants to receive you. You can’t just come in and say this is how it works in Texas, this is how it’s going to work in Seoul, Korea. No. It will for a second because that’s they’re like hey look we’re living like cowboys over here and then they’re gonna say well this isn’t really how we want to be served, this isn’t really how we want to work and so you’ve got to find a partner that’s willing to one tell you this and knows this.
Jeff Walter (33:23)
Because
Right.
Kevin Moran (33:37)
And if they don’t, then you’ve got to know that you’re going in, that you want to go into this market and the person you’re going to do business with doesn’t know anything about it and you don’t know anything about it, so you’re going to be spending some money to figure it out. But there’s a lot of people in market that are…
food and beverage people that understand how to bring in Western brands into their economies. And I would seek those people out, right? You definitely don’t want someone buying a business in New York and saying, I’m going to open up restaurants in London. No, they got to be in the stores. They’ve got to be walking the walk, talking the talk, until at least they get to a certain number of units where you’re like, yeah, you got this down and you got a great area manager. You got a great general manager. You got this and that. You can start to open on your own. And I really don’t even care where you live after that.
done the homework that makes you know the brand and what it requires. So you want to be in country as well. And then you’re back to the supply chain. The supply chain is the biggest piece, right? And no one likes to see countries get sanctions put on them and this and that because then can we even get product into their countries? You we ran into that with Russia a couple years ago, four or five years ago. All right, so what are we doing? Oh, we already figured that out. We actually have their product manufactured out of
Jeff Walter (34:34)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (34:52)
You know, St. Petersburg, awesome. Thank God we did that, because now those sanctions don’t hit us, right? So there’s a whole kind of play there, but I wouldn’t shy away from it. But you got to have, like, how are you going to train? How are you going to send someone over there to train to make your pizza, to make your sandwich, to make your burger, to make your cinnamon roll, or your?
Jeff Walter (34:54)
Right.
Kevin Moran (35:13)
ice cream cone, or whatever. So you want all these people to fly from Madrid, Spain to your location in Atlanta or wherever you are to come and learn how to train. And then fly back. You’re going to have to fly people there that are going to be there for their opening and training their staff. You’ve got to be prepared for all of that. So you’ve got to make sure you have all your costs configured and know what your outlay should be. And then you know what to charge, basically, because there’s territory fees. There’s franchise fees. There’s development fees.
Jeff Walter (35:35)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Moran (35:41)
And so now you say, I’d love to develop this market, but I have to have you contribute X, Y, and Z to this because I’m going to have these costs to bear. And I’m happy to do it, but I’ll give you a break on this side of something or whatever where you’re kind of you’re massaging the game.
Jeff Walter (35:53)
Right.
Kevin Moran (35:56)
And the ultimate deal is, if you’re not making money, I’m not making money. And if I don’t think I can make money with you as a franchisee of the UK or ⁓ of France or Paris or wherever else, then maybe it’s not the right deal. And you gotta have the processes and the thoughts in place that you don’t feel bad walking away from. And the person that you’re walking away from actually doesn’t feel bad about it either because then you’ve weighed it down, you just said, listen,
Neither one of us are ready and I don’t want you to waste your money and I don’t want to waste my money and my time and your time and give me some time to get some baby steps underneath me and then let’s talk again in a year or whatever maybe. So it’s just, you kinda gotta do it but, you know, do you leave the state of North Carolina and open up a store in California? It’s a lot of the same, same things. How do I get product over there? What’s the labor force look like over there? Do they know my brand over there?
Do they know my product, not even my brand? And that’s the good and the bad with pizza. They know you, but sometimes you ask someone in Singapore, what’s your favorite pizza? And they say Domino’s. You’re like, OK. I get that. And that’s what they’ve been exposed to. There’s a lot of little things, but it’s again, insatiable curiosity again. What are the things you need to know?
Jeff Walter (36:47)
All right.
Ha ha ha.
Alright, yes.
Yeah. But you wouldn’t shy away from it. Yeah, you got to say that.
Well, hey, Kevin, our time has just flown. And I know you have a hard stop. And so I just, before we go, just want to say, hey, if folks want to get a hold of you or Blaze Pizza, what’s the easiest way to get a hold of Blaze and or you? We’re going to
put the URL in the show notes, so we’ll have that. ⁓
Kevin Moran (37:30)
Yeah,
I’d go to blazepizza.com and hit franchising at the top and you’re gonna have everything you need right there. I’m on LinkedIn. Look me up. you know, love to talk to anybody. Love having conversations like this. I’m heading to the multi-unit franchising conference in Vegas next week. Listen, if you got any questions, I’m happy to tell you what I know. And if it means that you’re gonna buy my brand, great. And if it means that you’re gonna choose a different brand but you were educated on, I’m happy to do that too.
Jeff Walter (37:57)
Yeah.
Kevin Moran (37:57)
don’t want people
to not be confident in their decisions. And if I can ever help anybody understand something more than I know, I’m more than willing to share.
Jeff Walter (38:03)
Well, think, thank you. And I think you’ve shared a ton of knowledge here and I really appreciate it. And I really appreciate your time. So thank you, thank you very much. It was just, I just sat there and I just started just absorbing. So it was wonderful. It was wonderful. Thank you.
Kevin Moran (38:21)
It’s fun,
and it’s fun talking to folks like you, Jeff, and thank you for the platform to talk. And I really look forward to having more conversations with you and see where it goes.
Jeff Walter (38:32)
Me too. Me
too. Yeah, me too. This was good. We’ll have to do this again. This was a lot of fun. This flew. It really flew. So I really enjoyed it. So thank you, Kevin. to everybody out there, thank you for listening. We appreciate you.
Kevin Moran (38:43)
Thank you.