NuScienta:

 

Jeff Walter (00:00)

Hi, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast, where we explore scaling performance through channel infrastructure. My guest today is Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta Kengla. She’s the founder and CEO of Data Products.

 

An organization focused on helping individuals and businesses understand, adopt, and apply artificial intelligence to improve learning productivity and performance. Dr. Mechi, welcome to the program.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (00:24)

Thank you, Jeff, for having me. I’m very, very excited to be here today.

 

Jeff Walter (00:28)

Yeah, and and and I’m very you know, it’s very exciting to ⁓ w th it’s actually two great things, the learning, c and and and AI and and w I think we’ll have s really fun conversation about AI and its impact. especially you’re you’re the first ⁓ AI training provider that that I’ve talked to. So I think I think there’ll be a lot of fun things there. but I yeah, as as my listeners know, I’m always interested in how people ended up worth their hour. ‘Cause it’s always an interesting journey.

 

And it’s very informative about what they’re trying to do, especially founders, right? Like there’s there’s usually th there’s a r reason you founded your your your business and it and so why don’t you help us or help me understand the the journey, you know, what is data products and why did you found it and how how did you end up there?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (01:18)

Alright, right. So l how far back do you wanna go? I think we should start because we can take the entirety of this session and talking about a very interesting story about how I came to be here. However I think we should save that for another time. We won’t get the chinny chance to talk about AI if we if we did that. So l let’s notice on the career side. So I am a recovering mathematician.

 

Jeff Walter (01:22)

As as as early as you wanna go. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Yeah, yeah, let’s I like I love it. Yeah.

 

Okay. All right.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (01:44)

⁓ which means I started up in academics. I got a PhD in applied mathematics. and my topic was on tensors and matrices. So not to age myself, this is several decades ago. And at that time there were maybe about twenty, twenty-five people in the entire world academically that worked on tensors. Now

 

After doing that, I went into the postdoc at Lawrence Livermore, which was interesting, solving some really cool problems there. and anyone that’s an academic or was an academic in that timeline, you do understand that it’s about the honor. You’re as part of going through that process of getting a PhD, it’s drummed into you with you bleed honor of the work. It’s not about money, it’s not about anything but the pure

 

value in terms of pushing science, pushing knowledge one step further. And so the postdoc itself, because it was not in a pure researcher more across an applied section rather than just pure research, it was seen as a little bit of a sellout. and but I I and I but I enjoyed it immensely. And

 

Jeff Walter (02:46)

⁓ we’re we’re actually going

 

to apply this and make humankind better. That’s

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (02:52)

Yes, it’s just for the purity you do work for

 

the purity of the knowledge and that’s it. And so ⁓ I really enjoyed that. And then ⁓ I got into some startups. A few startups and then did some more applied work and that was very engaging. ended up at EY. I was the director for the Center of Excellence out there for data and AI and I was doing really fantastic work, got into the strategy side of things,

 

Jeff Walter (02:57)

That’s right. Yes.

 

Yeah.

 

Uh-huh.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (03:18)

applications, implementations for clients globally. That really opened up my my sphere of ⁓ thinking and the sort of work I really enjoy that. And as part of that work, had a good mentor, a great mentor, that was a program manager at the Department of Energy. And he said, have you looked into what they call Cyber Grants?

 

Jeff Walter (03:37)

Mm-hmm.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (03:42)

So CIBR grant is a small business innovation research grant that there’s actually is coded into law by Congress that a percentage of all the agency’s budget will go to fund grants within that particular agency that focus on innovation within that particular agency for small businesses. And so I looked into that and I did some research, got some partners and some friends and we put together a proposal and submitted, submitted it.

 

Jeff Walter (03:46)

Okay.

 

Right.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (04:12)

Now this is highly competitive. ⁓ we have about two thousand applications and at the end is some the grants maybe five. And we so happened to be lucky that we were involved with five that got the support from the Department of Energy. And so the grant, the project was ⁓ if I can remember the name,

 

Jeff Walter (04:15)

Right.

 

And and what was the nature of the supergrant?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (04:34)

It was called we called this Smart NetOps, but is really it was a complex network analytics platform.

 

The idea is that any communication that happens, right? Computing happens because of com communication between peripherals and devices. Any communication is the key to computing as we know. So how do we take complex communication? So think whether you’re doing scientific work and you need massive com communication conversations between different computers, different servers. think of FEMILab doing for like large physics experiments that’s gonna

 

Jeff Walter (04:41)

Okay.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (05:09)

improve energy, how do we speed that up? And so

 

⁓ there was that bond born, right? So in terms of how do we build a platform that collects the underlying data within a network, right? And there are different types of data. Let’s not get into that whole. But otherwise it in such a way that we can streamline things, prioritize things. So if you’re having a a call that’s a senior person having a video message, we prioritize the network for that while lagging the other things that are more routine for that particular call. How do we ensure security? How do we look at security two ways?

 

Jeff Walter (05:25)

Ha ha ha.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (05:43)

because there’s internal security, that’s communication versus security inside and outside of the entire ⁓ institutions. What about that institution that has multiple could look multiple locations? So if if if you have a multi located institution, so one that has a ⁓ campus say in Chicago, another in DC, right, it’s still part of the same network, it’s the part of the same internet, but it’s located in two geographical places.

 

Jeff Walter (06:06)

Uh-huh.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (06:09)

And how do you do an audit review of that in terms of if you think about the use case in high frequency trading, what happened from the basal level rather than looking at the application side of things which can sometimes be manipulated, if you go down to the network in terms of communication between devices, that really ever lies. So things like that and that’s what we’re focused on. So we did that, ⁓ got and and so I had to leave UI for that. That was very exciting. And I did that for a number of years.

 

And ⁓ and but did that under the umbrella of data products. ⁓ it’s also interesting about the name Data Products. When I came up with that name, I’m like, well, what I would like to do is build data products. There’s nothing more basic than that. And it was no one was talking about data products at that time. So it was a natural conclusion to say data products, and there we have it.

 

Jeff Walter (06:38)

Uh-huh.

 

Okay.

 

So so data products was a result of that initial ⁓ grant. You needed a vehicle to be able to ⁓ accept the grant money and that’s how you started data products and you started looking at that. Intr very interesting to go from from, you know, elite academia through ⁓ the corporate world and then end up as an entrepreneur. Very, very interesting.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (07:04)

Right.

 

That’s right.

 

Yes, but but what was interesting is this, right? So after starting data products, ⁓ and I was sharing this with friends and family and I’m like, Ooh, I’m going to dip my toes and get into data pro ⁓ entrepreneurship and the response I got was, What took you so long? And I’m apparently

 

Jeff Walter (07:38)

That’s that was not the exponence

 

I was expecting you to say.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (07:42)

No.

 

Apparently my personality had been pulling towards Infernal Ship as for as long as they could know me. And so they were just waiting for me to take the step and it was a revelation to me, but to them it was an expectation all along.

 

Jeff Walter (07:57)

That’s really that’s that’s and and w what was the revelation to you and why did they expect it what what was it about you that was that they

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (08:05)

So, I think as far back as Samuel I can remember, I’ve always I had a notebook of ideas, of problems that I wanted to solve in businesses and I would do all the research and

 

Jeff Walter (08:11)

Okay.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (08:17)

budgeting but I would just never pull the trigger. ⁓ in grad school I would get friends together and l and and and instigate them. Like why aren’t we we’re barely surviving? We had a stipend of sixteen thousand dollars a year that we’re living off of. like why aren’t we putting a bid to supply say toilet toilet paper to the university? Why are we living to external people? Why aren’t we putting our shoes in? Things like that.

 

Jeff Walter (08:20)

huh.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (08:43)

⁓ but I again I did not grow up in a family that was very entrepreneurial. I grew up in a family that was more professional based. You found some dedication, you learned about it, you focused all your ideas on it and that’s what you did. so it w there was always something str stopping me from say pulling the trigger and going that ⁓ and going full entrepreneurship.

 

Jeff Walter (09:05)

Very, very cool. And so what and and so it was the ⁓ it’s interesting ’cause it’s it’s like the supergrant was almost like the the bridge between this drive that was in you the you know, f going back years and years and years and ⁓ and then it’s like, Well, I’m doing the professional thing

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (09:14)

Yes.

 

Jeff Walter (09:25)

within the context of this grant and I need this I need to have a vehicle through which to do the grant. Right. And so and so it’s really it’s really academic. mathematician. that was you know when you started the that was so okay, so now data products and and and and and that was a pretty ⁓ you know the grant and what you’re doing there was pretty

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (09:34)

Yeah.

 

Jeff Walter (09:47)

you know, ⁓ i that applied research type work, right? That that which is what those grants are for. Like, hey, let’s we’ve got some great ideas now, how does that apply in in the the world and how can we make the world a better place f from that? And then and so and and how ma how many years ago was that? Or how long ago was that?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (09:50)

Correct. Correct.

 

so data products have been around for about twelve years now.

 

Jeff Walter (10:09)

Okay. ⁓ congratulations, over a decade. ⁓ hey, anytime somebody’s running a business for over a decade, that’s a cause for celebration. You know.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (10:11)

Yeah.

 

For a

 

year, Jeff, if you run a business for a year, kudos. This it’s hard work.

 

Jeff Walter (10:20)

Yeah, it’s it is. So so

 

now in the twelve in the past twelve years, what started off as that grant, how what what what evolved from there? How did it evolve from there?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (10:31)

So once we wrapped up the grant, the next stage is to try to sell commercialization. Unfortunately the wrap up sort of coincided the engine of it coincided with so it was a long process, right? And the ending where we’re finishing up the grant, the research, building out the product, it coincided with twenty twenty. The pandemic, exactly. And and so

 

Jeff Walter (10:49)

Okay.

 

That’s an excellent time. That’s

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (10:54)

⁓ unfortunately. ⁓ and

 

Jeff Walter (10:55)

yeah.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (10:56)

so things winded down and I had been doing some consulting on the side, I should say. Under the same vehicle. Because data, data products, mathematics is what I know as a foundation. that’s what I was exposed to.

 

Jeff Walter (11:01)

Okay.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (11:09)

I know how to consult that with professional services, so I’ve been doing that. So it just it was a natural progression, then we just left that as a product. It was the Smart NetOps product. We kept that aside and then just put our focus on the professional services side of things. Now during the pandemic.

 

Jeff Walter (11:24)

All right. During during the pandemic, which that

 

that was that well, that was a rough time, man. So

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (11:31)

well at that time at the beginning of the pandemic in particular no one was hiring, so it wasn’t as if I could go back and get a job. So it’s basically figure something out.

 

Jeff Walter (11:37)

Right.

 

Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. I was just talking to a gentleman today. He’s he he’s thinking of he’s interested in leaving the corporate world and going into the entrepreneurial world. And you know, we’re talking about our bac latitude’s background and the number of times, you know, we we went and then we pivoted. And he was like and he was like ’cause we’ve been around for over twenty something years. And ⁓

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (11:56)

Yes.

 

Jeff Walter (12:01)

And he’s and it was kinda like it he’s like, Wow, you pivoted a bunch of times over the t a couple of decades. I’m like, Yeah, you know, you’re going down one road and all of a sudden, you know, like we were screaming and then the Great Recession hit and then it was like, ⁓ this this isn’t gonna work, you gotta pivot and do something else and and le but leverage all the skill and talent that you have.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (12:14)

Yes.

 

Absolutely.

 

Absolutely.

 

Jeff Walter (12:25)

⁓ to

 

solve a different problem because y you know, s somebody’s gotta give you some money to solve like th we’re you’re providing value somehow, right?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (12:31)

So yes. So

 

this is something I really wish we would talk more about. The fact that life plan is not a straight path. It really is not. I feel like we should talk more about it. We should ⁓ talk to the youth more about it. One of the biggest fears when you’re talking to young folks about life and career and plan, they imagine your mind there’s this

 

Jeff Walter (12:38)

Yeah.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (12:53)

innate carefulness about selecting something because they feel like it’s going to define the rest of your life on that path. And I think it needs to be hammered that it’s just a starting point. The one thing that I am certain of, and I’m sure most you are as well and most people are certain of, is that things change. Without a doubt. Which means that there is going to be a lot of meandering.

 

Jeff Walter (13:00)

Yes.

 

Right.

 

a hundred percent.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (13:18)

I’m looking back at my life. This is not where I envisioned I was going to be. This is not the path I envisioned I was going to be on, but where I happen to be. I’m happy about it. But and I think there is the comfort that we need to sort of instigate and say it is fine to be unsure about where you’re gonna end up. Be like in the what they call a greedy algorithm, which means that you’re making the best possible choice based on the information that you have right now, and that’s it.

 

Jeff Walter (13:43)

Well and I see I I agree s wholeheartedly with you. I I feel like things have almost you know, for today for for you know, pe you know, teenagers and and folks in university today, i I it’s my I I was talking to my brother and he’s got a daughter in in school and in university and it was like like well she didn’t do this

 

Her freshman year, and therefore she got cut out of this club. And like, I’m like, and I’m sitting there going, What? Like, like, like I I I mean, I remember when I graduated college, this is just how old I am. I was like the only person I knew, and I I was a computer science major. I was the only person I knew that was even interviewing for jobs, and I didn’t get an offer.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (14:16)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jeff Walter (14:28)

my first offer until the day, literally the day after I graduated, right? All my buddies were like, you know, you graduated, you went home and then you started thinking about what I’m gonna do for work.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (14:33)

Yeah.

 

Okay.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (14:40)

And then

 

they ended up in all different types of job you know, unl unless you were going on to get your masters, right? Because you the the lawyers, the doctors and the lawyers, they were you know, the and the and the folks that were going on for academia, you know, they were going on that way. But everybody else was like, Well, I’ll go home and I’ll figure it out and and it’s I I I I I feel like you gotta discover your what you I think I feel like your twenties are really about

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (14:48)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (15:05)

Proving to yourself that you can add value to society, like somebody’s willing to give you a dollar for your time and energy, and and proving but proving it to yourself and then kind of in your late twenties going, Well, what do I really want to do with my life?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (15:20)

I cannot agree more, right? I’ll I’ll I I’ll add even a a good story. So for anyone that and perhaps this is different. So I grew up in Cameroon. Cameroon is a small country in West Central Africa under the British slash French education system. And things are very different there.

 

Jeff Walter (15:21)

Yeah.

 

Okay.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (15:39)

And one of the things I really love the Mab America is the fact that you can reinvent yourself at any stage in life. Now, in the on the British system, by the time you’re 13, 14, you select the core subjects that you’re gonna continue studying and you drop the rest. Based on those subjects, you take a general national exam and you you get scored on particular subjects. And well based on what you

 

Jeff Walter (15:55)

Uh-huh.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (16:03)

pass the papers that you pass, the subjects that you pass, you’re only restricted to study those subjects in the next level. And now this is high school, right? So based on the subjects that you pass in high school and not a national exam, that’s only what you can study in university. So the basic by the time you’re thirteen, you’re basically picking out a career plan. And you get to university, you’re studying whatever you study and you come out and you’re struggling for a job.

 

Jeff Walter (16:10)

Yeah. Right.

 

That’s crazy.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (16:33)

Now that is really, really bad. Usually it’s usually ⁓ defined by parents or what you happen to be good at at that time or think you’re good at at that time, right? Whereas in the US, you can figure it out. So long as you show aptitude and chain and focus, no matter where you are, where what stage, you can figure out any subject and get good at it.

 

Jeff Walter (16:36)

Wow.

 

Yeah.

 

I mean that’s w it’s interesting ’cause I kind of had that path, but not under a a a system. ⁓ when I was in high school I took a programming course and this is back in the late seventies. And it was like, what is this thing? Right? And ⁓ but bottom line, and then I went and got my computer science degree and I came out and I was a ⁓ a a a a consultant, you know, a programmer consultant. But then I hit like twenty five, twenty six, and was like, my gosh.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (17:00)

Mm-hmm.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (17:22)

I’m I’m I’m going down this career because when I was in 10th grade, I took a course and I really liked programming. And now I’m in my 20s, you know, I’m in my mid-20s. I’m like, is this my life? That just so happens I ended up running a software company. But I ended up going back to grad school because I’d always had an interest in business, so I went and got my MBA.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (17:34)

Right.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (17:42)

But I really went there just to think for two years about what I want to do with my life. Like I really like I w wasn’t like, ⁓ I’m gonna get an MBA and then I’ll do this and I’ll do this. It was like I’m gonna pause my life for two years and just go think. And as long as I’m thinking, you know, I got I like business, so I’ll I’ll I’ll s I’ll get a degree in that. But really I want to think about what I want to do for my I was like, I’m never going back to software ever again. You know, I’m gonna do I’m gonna I’m gonna go do something real, because you know, like I was a consultant.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (17:51)

Okay.

 

Jeff Walter (18:12)

to the insurance industry and I’m like, I’m a service to a service to a service. I want to do something real. And then you know, here I am years later running a software company. It’s kind of funny. ⁓

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (18:22)

Yeah, it’s it’s a real advantage

 

in the in the US system, I think most young people don’t realize and definitely are too afraid to take it advantage of. But in any case, ⁓ I think we’re almost halfway through this and we haven’t talked well, gotten to things.

 

Jeff Walter (18:34)

well

 

let let it well I think here’s a nice tie over because it’s really interesting because it w if we if we get into AI, so because what’s really fascinating and it’s the strength of this system where any you can you can reinvent yourself. I was at the Association for Talent Development conference a couple of weeks ago on the training side, and as you would imagine, there’s just a ton of AI vendors have popping up, right?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (18:54)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yes.

 

Jeff Walter (19:00)

But

 

here’s a really cool thing. I talked to a bunch of them and what blows me away is how many of the and they and they’re and they’re tackling they’re taking this technology, this a artificial intelligence, and applying it in such cool

 

groundbreaking ways. But to your point, and this is the and and we’ll get into learning more about AI, and while I think it’s really important to to bring your your knowledge up, just in general, most of the people that founded these companies were not learning and development people. The the story was the same. I had I saw this problem.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (19:35)

wow.

 

Jeff Walter (19:39)

I saw this technology, me and a couple of buddies got together to figure out how to apply this technology to solve this problem. And here we are three years later in the learning and development industry. Never thought I’d be in the learning and development industry. But but this problem when we solved it, it had a better it it could be applied here and here and here. And next thing I know, we’re we’re a learning we’re an ed tech company. ⁓ and that story happened three or four times.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (20:03)

Yeah.

 

Jeff Walter (20:07)

And it shows you the power of what you were talking about. These people had nothing to do with the learning and develop learning and development industry. The the the the and and they but they’re all like I thought I’d I and they were in their, you know, thirties, forties, fifties, like all over the place. But and they’re and it was exactly that cross pollinization and it was amazing. So let l so w thank you for that. But let’s talk about so so I think that lead leading into the to the AI, so what got you focused on on on

 

the AI and then ⁓ one of your brands is Nucenta, which is ⁓ a an AI learning so let let’s let’s shift there because this I I really do think we need to get the literacy of what this technology can do, raise the bar, because like like I said at this conference it’s like all this great stuff and they’re doing really cool stuff by a bunch of people that knew nothing about technology.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (20:58)

Speaking.

 

Jeff Walter (21:05)

And knew nothing about learning and development, but they saw a problem, they thought that this technology could help, they educated themselves on it, and then they applied it and poof, new it’s just amazing. So so helping help us understand. So that’s the data product’s origin. You got going. Now the artificial intelligence revolution comes by. What happens next?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (21:15)

Yeah.

 

Even before then, right, this is a s we was kinda easy.

 

a running joke and consulting where professional services. You’re speaking to some senior leaders, some board level members, and they would ask basic questions that shows a very deep lack of understanding of technologies. Right. one client a long, long time ago, we had delivered an AI solution for them and presented the results, right, in a dashboard where they can interact with it. And his question was where is

 

the AI. And and so in his mind AI was some cool robotic thing that was gonna wow, right? And now comes I’m I’m doing professional services, I’m interacting with folks, there is always an education piece, right? As a technologist, myself as a researcher, as an academic, I truly enjoy teaching. So there was that service that was Draggy spending a lot of my time on, unpaid might I add, for every engagement.

 

Jeff Walter (22:09)

Mm-hmm.

 

Ha ha ha.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (22:22)

engagement I would spend time educating people about in in language that they could understand, right? About the nuances, general foundations before we got into the engagement. And I noticed that there was an opportunity. So I extended a consulting practice from the professional services side to have advocacy and coaching side of things. And that picked up.

 

Jeff Walter (22:29)

huh.

 

Right.

 

Uh-huh.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (22:45)

And from that I’m like, well, it should not just be for these people. We can actually build a solution where core foundations could be applied to anyone. And frankly, in the world that we live now, AI literacy is fundamental. It’s not a nice to have, it’s a need to have. It’s not expect the expectation is not that everyone will become an AI engineer or an AI whatever it is.

 

Jeff Walter (22:59)

Mm-hmm.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (23:10)

The point is within the scope of work that you do, you need to be able to interact with AI, ask questions of it, decipher ethics risk issues, and do your work more proficient.

 

Jeff Walter (23:17)

Uh-huh.

 

And so how how does one go about elevating their knowledge or capability or or understanding? Like like I’m I’m a I’m a roll up your sleeves kinda do it guy, so I’ve been playing with this, but you know, that’s a not a very efficient way to learn.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (23:35)

Yeah.

 

It’s not it well it’s like

 

there’s the same goes, right? You can figure things out. My mom was fond of saying this, everything is figure out the book. Like it’s the question is not that you should know it, but can you figure it out, right? And that’s how you but you could also ask, right? And to have the patience to listen and learn and then do it that way and the learn from the experience of others, right? And do it faster.

 

Jeff Walter (23:53)

Right, right, right.

 

Yeah, so go ahead.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (24:06)

But to answer your question, how does one go about it? First you must be curious. It doesn’t happen without curiosity. Now, if you’re curious, there are tons and tons of resources out there. some free, and I would strongly advise you to start with some of the free ones and then you go to the paid ones. to just interact with it.

 

Now this is this is interesting. Like the most people we ask what is AI, right? Everybody goes artificial intelligence. I’m like, okay, but what is it? Their understanding doesn’t go beyond that is artificial intelligence. And all right. This is something I do a lot in my in my talk, so I’ll give a basic definition so that anyone can understand. So artificial intelligence is any system

 

Jeff Walter (24:37)

Okay. So what is it?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (24:51)

program that emulates human intelligence. Period. Period. Now the question I like to ask the audience pack is what is an intelligent human? Aha. And what that clears is what that clear what that clarifies is there is a huge range in terms of intelligence. If I can tie my shoelaces, does that make me intelligent? Sure.

 

Jeff Walter (24:56)

Okay.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (25:17)

Right? If I can speak a language one language well, does that make me intelligent? Sure. If I can do phenomenal research and come up with some biomedical solution or does that make me intelligent? Absolutely. Now there is a range of intelligence in human humanity, and that same range applies to artificial intelligence. So the question is, is this artificial intelligence? That’s absolutely yes. Then the question is how intelligent of a system is it?

 

Jeff Walter (25:29)

Why

 

Yeah.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (25:46)

A good example I like to give to sort of clarify that is if you think of not to age myself, when we started working, ⁓ back in the day, you went you came into work, you had a stamp, a c timestamp where you would put in your card a card stamp and it would stamp the time you came punching the time you came in.

 

Jeff Walter (26:05)

Punch it you literally punched the time clock. Yes. Yes, I remember those days. Yep.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (26:09)

And when you left you

 

Jeff Walter (26:09)

Yep.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (26:11)

punch it, right? Exactly. And you left. Now w that that b before that, I’m sure there was a human whose only job was to record, hey, Jeff came in at eight one today and left at four four fifty-nine, two minutes deducted from this paycheck, right? After the point is that was a human’s job and was automated with a punch card, right?

 

Jeff Walter (26:30)

Right.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (26:36)

Now is that a is that artificial intelligence? I dare say yes. It’s not a very smart one, but absolutely it emulates human intelligence. So it is artificial intelligence. Now fast forward to a smart building that I walk in, right?

 

As soon as I walk in it recon captures my face. Regardless of my hair short, long colour, if I’m wearing a packer for winter or summer clothes or suit, it recognizes that it’s me. Automatically grants me access to the floors that I’m I need to be. It automatically turns the temperature to my office to the right temperature that I’ve set it to be, start things going lights on, and have that set up as ele elevator calls the elevator. All of that done automatically. Now is that

 

Whole building management system intelligent? Absolutely. Right? So do you compare the punch cards to an intelligent building system? Sure, in the sense that they’re all artificial intelligence, but there are different levels of artificial intelligence. So next time someone tells you artificial intelligence, you have a fundamental understanding of what that is.

 

Jeff Walter (27:40)

Mm-hmm. Well, it it’s it’s interesting because ⁓ yeah, I I I believe that you know machine learning and and and and it it goes back decades and decades and decades. And I like the way you’re putting it is you know I ⁓ you know it’s it’s to it to a certain degree all automation is intelligent or is is some or ⁓ but but where we’ve gotten right now is it just it just be

 

Because it can we’ve gotten to the point where it can understand human language that it now it now it feels much more intelligent. Yeah, we went w we went from gerbils to dogs to y you know what I’m saying? Like it’s

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (28:14)

I’ll

 

Yeah.

 

Burst your bubble here. ⁓ The current generation generative AI that we have to does not understand human language. It pretends to, it just finds rules and rhythms and replicates them. It does not understand it. A clear example of anyone’s on a chat GPT is to put in a word, if or any word, and ask it how many syllables does that word have.

 

Jeff Walter (28:22)

Okay.

 

Well th that’s t that’s true. Yes.

 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (28:46)

It does not know because usually in our capture that does not it’s not replicated. Another interesting fact is most of the systems are built in English language. ⁓ I mean not just English, but American English language because we dominate the world and stuff that’s online. And so if you were to apply another language, right, it might try to do some translation but it’s not gonna capture the new ones because context, which is what genitive AI sort of finds within patents, is different within different languages.

 

Jeff Walter (28:58)

Right.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (29:16)

language structures.

 

Jeff Walter (29:18)

Yeah. Well you know it’s funny that you say that. First semester freshman year back in the eighties in college, I wrote a paper about understanding language and using probabilistic using statistics and probability to to to understand what it was somebody was saying and then how to reply as a that that was my paper for my Engl my one and only English class. I got

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (29:29)

Well.

 

that’s fantastic.

 

What a dare that professor. How dare that professor? well.

 

Jeff Walter (29:45)

Yeah, I got a C plus on that paper. I think maybe

 

maybe I had a good idea, but maybe I was not communicating it very effectively. But

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (29:57)

I I have a piggyback story on that, I I think. again, back

 

in the nineties when Google first came up with Google Translate, it was a mess. And so th this is from Professor Ambarin, I should say, but it’s a great story. And so there is this phrase that goes, ⁓

 

the the the my the spirit is strong but and the body’s weak, something like that. and and and if you were to type that in English and put that into Google Translate at that time and say translate to to Russian and then took what the Cyrillic that it produced and then put it back into Google Translate and say translate into English because of course I don’t speak Russian. What you what came out was

 

Jeff Walter (30:18)

Yeah.

 

Right.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (30:39)

The spirit is the the vodka is good and the beast is written.

 

Jeff Walter (30:42)

Ha ha ha.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (30:43)

And I thought that was very, very cool. That was awesome. That was that captures really language translation from a contextual format. The vodka exactly.

 

Jeff Walter (30:47)

Yeah, the vodka, the spirit, the vodka. Right, right, right. Yeah. It it does not understand. So ⁓

 

but okay, okay, so but something has definitely changed in the last couple of years. There’s an el elevation of the of the technology to a point where it’s it it’s able to take on tasks that were heretofore it was unable to.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (31:00)

Exactly.

 

Jeff Walter (31:09)

And it’s and it’s the thing everybody’s thinking and talking about now. Now you you came up with a set of courses to help raise s and and I think you know from what you said it’s like, hey, you love to teach, we need to increase the level of understanding about what this technology can do. you know where well for for the audience if they were interested in those courses, where where are those courses? Where are they hanging out?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (31:16)

Correct.

 

⁓ absolutely.

 

So it’s on the platform New Center. There is a free account. We have quite a few free courses, so sign up and take them. Foundational stuff. That explains in simple terms, right? What it is. And the goal there is not to make you a make you an AAI expert expert, not yet. It’s to just to arm you with the knowledge so you can have intelligent conversations.

 

And you can able to you can you can be able to do your job more effectively if you choose to utilize AI within it. Right. So go ahead.

 

Jeff Walter (32:02)

And and what what do you see

 

as the you know the low hanging fruit there for folks, you know, trying to improve their the quality or quantity or productivity of their output? Like what what what should folks look at to begin with? You know, if I you know, in terms of tools to use not not specific tools, but just what what where’s the where’s where’s the you know, if I if I had never done anything with AI except I can spell it

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (32:19)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jeff Walter (32:31)

And I I I took one of these courts like what’s like what where sh where shall I start in terms of trying to improve my my my productivity, my economic output?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (32:41)

So

 

so I’m a c academic and I’m a firmly big believer of you need to understand foundations. It’s not because I’m asking you to read, it’s because there are nuances that come up and in the aspect of doing it it’s gonna fundamentally change that once you understand foundation what makes something up. Now that’s what I would firmly recommend. But understanding without doing doesn’t really apply. So for New Centa, for example, if you’re a premium subscription member, we do have what they call the sandbox. A sand a sandbox that actually shows

 

Jeff Walter (32:56)

Right.

 

Okay.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (33:11)

cases a bunch of different LLMs right not to call brands here because we’re brandnostic but quite a few and the point is you do have some credits in in terms of that you can use to sort of play around with things so get your hands dirty yes use use use use use play around with things take some of the free courses understand the nuances but work foundation and then get your hands dirty that’s the only way you grow

 

Jeff Walter (33:37)

So and and get your hands dirty doing like what? What would I what would I be doing?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (33:42)

So as someone that is getting started, right, the goal is what will make your life this is a question you need to ask yourself. What will make your life easy? What is one task that is you do over and over and over again, that you think that it would help your life a lot if someone were to take that off your plate?

 

Jeff Walter (34:00)

Right.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (34:01)

And it doesn’t have to be something that you love, it doesn’t have to be something that you hate, it just has to be something that can be handled by an AI system. So for example, ask it to take your resume. You have a resume, everyone has a resume. Upload your resume in the your own system and ask it to analyze it and critique it.

 

Jeff Walter (34:19)

Mm-hmm.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (34:19)

Tell it you’re looking to in terms of the next career step you want to go to, what skills should you learn so that you’re ready to be able to handle that next career growth?

 

Jeff Walter (34:31)

Cool. And then okay. And so

 

You’re the folks that ⁓ so there’s DuCenta, there’s a set of courses there, some for free, so that’s awesome. I’d encourage people to go check out. and then there’s a paid set of courses beyond. Is is that your main thrust with data products now or or are you continuing the consulting or wha what’s what’s the future of data products look like?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (34:42)

Mm-hmm.

 

we’re still do we’re still still doing that. That’s our bread and butter. we’re a bunch of consultants in there, so we’re still doing that. But we have a new group of people that are focused on and they’re very engaged on the education piece because this has implications for society at a very, very large scale. and and the distinction is this there are a lot of other platforms that do some education, but the educations tend to lean more around specifics. So take Cousera for example, right? It’s more academic type work.

 

If you’re looking at what’s there’s one or two other big ones, it’s usually more engineering focus. Not everyone wants to learn to become an engineer, right? Not everyone needs to become an engineer to be effective in the work that they do. so the goal is to based on your interest, based on your role, how can we make you super armed with AI so you can do better?

 

Jeff Walter (35:32)

Right.

 

That’s r and and so the the main thrust with data products is continuing down the consulting path, helping clients adopt is AI AI technologies to improve their operations and and and their businesses.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (35:49)

Correct.

 

Correct.

 

Jeff Walter (36:00)

And so, you know, but then you saw because it going back to what you said earlier, you kept having to educate people on the cap you know, what is AI, what can it do, how can it help you? And so the the the training aspect became an outgrowth of okay, I’m not gonna tell this the next client this again. Let me just put in something that they can then consume. And then next thing you know, you have a a very significant

 

catalog of courses there. It’s really I’d I would encourage folks to to check it out, especially if you’re you know want to know, hey, what what how what can this tool do, what can this technology do for me and you want to get your brain thinking, you know, take those free courses and it’ll just tri you know, to your p you know it’ll start triggering ideas, ⁓ if you you know, if you’re if you’re curious of like, huh, I didn’t know it could do I I didn’t know it could do that or let me pl let me play with it this way and ⁓

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (36:44)

Absolutely.

 

Jeff Walter (36:54)

Yeah, and I think I think a lot of people are afraid but ⁓ to to touch the new toy, the new technology. But I I would encourage them to jump right in and and and you know, spend a little time. You know, don’t don’t don’t go on a binger. sp you know, just spend a little time a couple of times a week doing stuff and and and build that and and that.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (36:57)

Yes.

 

Yeah.

 

Jeff Walter (37:16)

And then so so so the future for data products, you continue to build the consulting practice, continue to build the a the course library?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (37:23)

Yes, that’s that’s what we have. It’s it sounds boring but it’s exciting in its own way. Right. The good thing about consulting is you’re always learning. There’s always gonna be new innovation, ⁓ there’s gonna be new industries within the industries that you learn in terms of the domain space, you get to meet many interesting people and sh don’t tell the clients but I don’t get to own my problems forever.

 

I come in and I I walk out. I walk out the door, right? Our goal is not to come in there and live there forever, is to call come in, arm people so they’re capable and then move on to the next.

 

Jeff Walter (37:45)

Ha ha ha. ⁓

 

Yeah, what what I always loved about consulting and true true consulting as opposed to staffing, you know, ’cause a lot of staffing goes by consulting. But to me, true consulting is you’re on the the knowledge horizon, right? Like as as an academic, you’re you’re pushing human knowledge, but then right behind that is you’re you’re is you’re trying to take that knowledge and apply it and it hasn’t been systematized or productized yet. And that’s why you’re

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (38:03)

Yes.

 

Some thing is here on the call with your horizon.

 

Yeah, you’re coffee. You know that.

 

Sure.

 

Correct.

 

Jeff Walter (38:26)

And that’s why you’re bringing consultants in, because you have these high val because this whatever it is, this technique, this technology, this mindset, in this case AI technology, can have tremendous value to organizations, but it hasn’t been you know it’s it’s not ⁓ productized yet. But that doesn’t mean they can’t save the company millions and millions of dollars today. And and that

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (38:28)

Songs.

 

Whatever it is.

 

Keep our turn as we’re thinking of organizations.

 

⁓ privatized yeah. Correct. But that doesn’t mean they can just make the company know it, so they said.

 

Jeff Walter (38:55)

Ma I mean, I’m a big believer in the free market. That eventually makes everything a little cheaper. It l and makes our our standard of living a little higher. And it’s I just little grains of sand on that side of the scale. And ⁓ you know, and that makes the world a better place. That’s really cool.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (38:59)

Yes. But things are more stable quicker. Absolutely scale for you know things are all over the place. I can I can’t say

 

anything more than that. You you took it out, yes, that’s exactly it.

 

Jeff Walter (39:18)

Yeah.

 

So so so Dr. Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta if if somebody wanted to get a hold of you or Data Products or Nu Sienta, what what would they do?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (39:30)

the fastest way for me, please reach out to me on LinkedIn. ⁓ LinkedIn ⁓ go ahead. So LinkedIn, you can just search for my name. The good thing about having a weird name is there are only a handful of you that exist.

 

Jeff Walter (39:35)

And No no go ahead.

 

Ha ha

 

ha.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (39:45)

So if

 

you search Dr. Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta Kengla in Chicago and LinkedIn, I’m gonna pop up. Shoot me a a message there directly. for new center, you can just go to newcentra.com and that is n-uscinta.com. And ⁓ what is interesting is newcent is a derivation of the Latin new scientifica, which means new skills. So that’s how we came up with the name. Yes.

 

Jeff Walter (40:06)

very cool. Very

 

cool. That that’s very cool. And we will and obviously your your your name and the ⁓ and and a link to ⁓ Nuciento will be in the the show notes and so you know people can can go there and and find that. before we we’re we’re coming up on our time. But before we do, is there anything else you want to share with the ⁓ the the audience?

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (40:26)

it’s exciting times that we live in, right? ⁓ there is one final story. I’m a story person. So ⁓ one final story. This is coming to you via a good friend of mine. they had a a great grandmother

 

Jeff Walter (40:31)

Yeah. Yeah, go ahead.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (40:39)

that came from the country and visited new visited them in New York City and they went to the Empire State Building. And first time being on a a big elevator and he she came walked in, she’s 90 something or 90 something. She stepped into the elevator with them and within a few seconds they’re on the like fiftieth floor. And she steps out and she goes, my God. I would never I never thought I would live to see the time where within eight seconds I could

 

climb up fifty stories. And and we grew up in something like that and it doesn’t mean much, but this is incredible for that lady. And what I want the audience, the listeners to take away is we’re living in such a moment where we have a solution and innovation that we can interact with. My work has gone infinitely easier. I have improved myself in things that I felt lacking leverage in AI.

 

We’re looking back, our kids will be looking at this as, ⁓ this is expected, right? And some other new technology is gonna come at that time and we’re gonna be mm like I remember the time when we were doing AI and that was the top of our Gen AI and that was the top of our of our innovation, and they’re gonna laugh at us. So let’s revel in the newness of what we’re living in. It’s great opportunities, folks. Take advantage of it.

 

Jeff Walter (41:37)

Right.

 

Ha ha.

 

I think that’s a a great way to to end it. Doctor Kengla, thank thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join me and and share your insights with the audience. And I I I I always learn something, so thank you for educating me and and helping me learn more. so th thank you.

 

Dr. Mechie Nkengla of NuScienta (42:15)

Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for having me again. ⁓ this is entirely my pleasure. As you can tell I enjoy talking about this stuff. So I had lots of fun here with the training impact.

 

Jeff Walter (42:22)

Yeah.

 

thank you. And ⁓ y your your passion comes through very, very loudly. And and it’s really it ⁓ it’s so cool. So and to everybody out there, thanks for listening and we’ll see you next time. Bye bye.