Soft Skills, Real Impact

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Hi, I’m Jeff Walter.

 

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Welcome to the podcast.

 

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Today, we’re very honored to have a guest, Ruben Tilkin.

 

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Ruben is a trial lawyer, mediator, and founder of Virtus Conflict Solutions.

 

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with a postgraduate degrees in both corporate law and law and economics.

 

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He has also served as vice president of committees at the Bar Association in Sao Paulo, Brazil, including mediation and the bar exam.

 

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He’s certified in neuro-linguistic programming, which I’d like to learn more about as we go on, and a master coach.

 

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Rubens blends legal expertise with human right insight.

 

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He’s successfully led over 70,000 agreements across various areas of law, trained more than 550 professionals in mediation and conflict management, is the author of a leading book on Brazil’s mediation law.

 

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Now based in Miami, Rubens is bringing Virtus Mission to assist companies and individuals in the United States.

 

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So Rubens, thank you for agreeing to join me on the podcast and welcome.

 

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Jeff, thank you very much.

 

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It’s a pleasure being here with you.

 

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Congratulations for the podcast.

 

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Oh, thank you.

 

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And it’s an honor for me.

 

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Thank you very much.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Well, so we were, we were chatting and you know, so you got an interesting background, right?

 

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You know, lawyer, Brazil, mediation, you know, that’s an interesting journey.

 

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Help educate me on the, on the journey.

 

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Like how did you end up where you’re at?

 

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How’d you, how’d you end up as founder and as an attorney running Avertus Solutions?

 

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Yeah, this is a great question, Jeff, and I always answer this.

 

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You know, people usually don’t understand how a litigation lawyer become a mediator and like a coach to help people drive themselves through conflicts.

 

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The thing is, since my early ages, I always knew that I would love to be a lawyer, right?

 

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This was like intuitive in my life.

 

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I didn’t have any question about, I didn’t plan any other career, but since the beginning,

 

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And I think this was like the turning point in my career since the beginning.

 

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I always thought about that clients don’t want to stay for too long, engaged in a lawsuit.

 

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You know, after, I can tell you what.

 

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That’s a shocker.

 

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That’s a shocking revelation.

 

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I mean, you see, no, you’re right, Jeff, because think about this, right?

 

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I always believed that clients should

 

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should have the power to take the decisions in their lives and not transfer to a third party, being like a judge or an arbitrator in case of an arbitration.

 

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I always believe that lawyers should give the clients the ability and the space

 

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to decide their lives, right?

 

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I don’t see the lawsuit as a game, for instance, like with the starting point and the final whistle.

 

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I don’t see the lawsuit like that.

 

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We don’t need to weigh the final awards to decide what to do.

 

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In my opinion, the good lawyer nowadays is the one that helped the client to leave the lawsuit as quick as possible, to match the client’s interests, right, and needs, of course.

 

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So since the beginning, even though I was engaged in many complex

 

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litigation cases, I always try to see a way out, to take the client out of the law, right?

 

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And from my experience, in all the cases that I succeed doing that, the clients got really happy, you know, and valued my work.

 

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Because sometimes we feel that by, you know, being just a lawyer, petitions, depositions, and waiting years and years to come,

 

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The client will be satisfied.

 

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But you know, there is one thing, Jeff, that it’s very important to understand.

 

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Sometimes even with the final award and in favor of your client, the client is not satisfied.

 

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That’s interesting, you know, because when they start the lawsuit, it’s like 10 years before.

 

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So by the time he gets the final award, probably that need is no longer in place.

 

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You know?

 

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So sometimes I felt that even delivering a good award to the client, the client wasn’t satisfied.

 

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So I decided to study, besides all my legal background, some other soft skills in my career.

 

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So I did, as you mentioned, like the coaching program, neuro-linguistic programming, training, negotiation, and conflict resolution.

 

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So every time I’m engaged in a lawsuit,

 

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I’m always trying to see ways out to have my client settle and not stay for too long in the law.

 

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So I’m not familiar with neuro linguistic programming.

 

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What is that?

 

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Help me understand that.

 

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It’s like a very, yeah, I mean, this is a very important tool to help people change their mindset.

 

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Because we all come to our lives with beliefs, right?

 

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And sometimes we have limiting beliefs.

 

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that get us stuck in certain stages of our life.

 

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It could be professionally speaking, relationships, friendships, whatever.

 

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So the neuro-linguistic programming help people change their mindset, change their habits.

 

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We bring support to the client to help them see a different way

 

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way out from that particular conflict, for instance.

 

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So sometimes I see people that come to Virtus saying, you know, every time in life I face this sort of conflict, I can get rid of this.

 

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It’s very, it’s something that is part of my life.

 

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And they don’t see the patterns behind the conflict.

 

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Right.

 

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So the neuro linguistic programming help people see different paths to

 

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to change their habits and their mindset to live a better life and strengthen relationships.

 

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You know, basically, this is it.

 

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Okay.

 

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Interesting.

 

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Okay.

 

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So, yeah.

 

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So you saw this need that even when you were successful, there wasn’t satisfaction.

 

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And so it’s like, how do we get people out of these?

 

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So help me understand the leap from that to starting Virtus, because starting a firm, that’s a, that’s

 

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That’s no easy undertaking.

 

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Yes, you’re right.

 

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I know a little bit about that and it ain’t easy.

 

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No, no, that’s a great question.

 

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And the thing is this, in the past, I would say probably 20 years ago or so, the mediation practice was within the law firm, was one of the practice areas in my law firm.

 

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Okay.

 

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And then when they realized that if I wanted to do more to people, to families, to companies, wouldn’t make sense

 

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to have this field, this area inside the law firm.

 

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So I decided to move into a new direction and establish Virtus.

 

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Okay.

 

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And Virtus became one of the leading companies in Brazil in terms of prevention and resolution of conflicts.

 

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This is really important to mention because we don’t do only mediation.

 

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Mediation is a small part of the company.

 

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We do that in many areas, many fields.

 

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But basically, Virtus concept is helping people, companies and family business to prevent and solve their conflicts, right?

 

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So the idea of establishing Virtus was to bring like a broader view in terms of

 

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conflict resolution, you know, and not stay just on the legal side.

 

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Because when we say mediation, everybody leads to the legal side.

 

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Right.

 

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I’m in court or I’m about to get in court.

 

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Right.

 

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This is not about virtus.

 

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All right.

 

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Okay.

 

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Virtus focus in the prevention side with our training programs and consulting services as well as resolution.

 

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Okay.

 

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So, and I think was a right

 

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all, you know, at that time, because if I had left the conflict resolution service within the law firm, I wouldn’t have grown as I did, you know, and I wouldn’t have achieved so many agreements and so many people certified in our company, you know.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Well, I could see how in the law firm, the mediation side, when you already have the conflict, you know, it’s kind of part of that whole

 

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two parties have a conflict, how do you adjudicate the conflict?

 

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Mediation is one technique, and then ultimately it’s the law, right?

 

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And it’s the courts.

 

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But, you know, but the prevention side is really interestingly what I like to, you know, we’re a training podcast, right?

 

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So we’re about training.

 

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And as you said, the prevention side is about training and giving people the tools to prevent the

 

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the conflicts from arising in the first place?

 

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Well, let’s start when a client engages you on the prevention side, you know, for the training and that, what are they hoping to achieve?

 

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Like, why would they bring you, you know, like on the mediation and the litigation side, I understand why you bring somebody in, right?

 

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You’ve got a conflict, it seems to be irreconcilable, and somehow you got to reconcile it, right?

 

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It’s more objective, right?

 

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It’s straightforward.

 

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Right.

 

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And so here’s this conflict and we’re going to reconcile it through mediation or litigation.

 

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But when does a, or what clients, you know, when they bring you on the prevention side, on the training side, what are they hoping to achieve?

 

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Like what’s the.

 

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Where are they at and what, you know, help me understand that.

 

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What’s their goals?

 

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Right.

 

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Before, amazing, amazing.

 

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I think it’s a very important topic.

 

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Before I answer your question, I think it’s important to state what I truly believe in terms of conflict resolution in life.

 

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Okay, let’s forget about the legal side.

 

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Everybody has conflicts, right?

 

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I mean, every single day.

 

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It doesn’t matter if it’s an internal conflict

 

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or an external conflict, right?

 

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Internal conflict, for instance, an employee who is struggling on the decision whether he should look for another job or not, for instance, or like a husband and wife, they’re not getting a loan, so one of the sides are struggling to decide whether they would get divorced or not.

 

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Right.

 

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Okay, so this is like an internal conflict, an example of internal conflict.

 

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External conflict would be

 

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You don’t get along with a colleague that you work with, right?

 

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You don’t get along with your boss.

 

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The way he communicates with you, you don’t like it.

 

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You think it’s disrespectful.

 

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whatever, or you engage like in any kind of conflict with somebody else for any reason.

 

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So basically, in my opinion, and this would be probably the core, you know, the foundation of Virtus, we truly believe that self-awareness, self-knowledge, and the ability to deal with conflicts are the key points for a successful life.

 

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Okay.

 

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personal or professional speaking.

 

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Okay.

 

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Because what I’ve seen in the past, like almost 30 years, I see many people not paying attention for the soft skills.

 

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It’s only about the hard skills.

 

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It’s only about the technical skills.

 

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So I’m going to take this course, I’m going to take that program, I’m going to go to Harvard, I’m going to go to MIT, whatever, and I’m going to get a

 

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a good opportunity in life, okay?

 

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This is true, right?

 

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But you also have to have some foundations to hold this technical ability during your growing process, okay?

 

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And these foundations, in my opinion, would be self-awareness and learn how to deal with conflicts.

 

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Right.

 

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So basically, let’s now answer your question.

 

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I’m going to I’m going to bring an example of a company.

 

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Okay.

 

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Because we do assist individuals and families as well.

 

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But let’s talk about a company.

 

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Right.

 

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So a company has a huge problem in the turnover.

 

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Okay.

 

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Everybody stays in the company, not for more than a year.

 

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Okay.

 

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So looks like they cannot keep like good professionals in the company.

 

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On and off, people are coming in and coming out, right?

 

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Another thing, they lost productivity.

 

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They don’t see a team work in this or in that department.

 

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A lot of conflicts going on.

 

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Third, most of the companies, they don’t have the ability, the tools to manage conflicts properly.

 

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They think HR is ready for that task, but I don’t see that.

 

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Okay.

 

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If you’re dealing with the small conflicts in a daily basis, fine.

 

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But if you’re dealing with like major issues or problems that are affecting, you know, the company and the productivity of the team, I don’t think they should bring this responsibility to the HR.

 

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Because think about this, Jeff, and you have a lot of experience in the field.

 

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You have like two employees fighting the company.

 

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Right.

 

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And then the HR invite those guys for some sort of meeting of mediation.

 

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Let’s not talk about the formal mediation.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Okay.

 

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So the question is, do you think both employees or one of them will bring all the subjects without any fear to be punished later on?

 

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you know, to get the conflict resolved by HR, meaning that sometimes the employee needs to place a complaint against the company policies, for instance.

 

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So this employee will fear to bring this subject to the HR.

 

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Okay, so sometimes, from my experience, I see that employees, they don’t bring the big picture to be resolved.

 

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Okay, it’s just part of the problem they’re putting on the table.

 

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So you’re not resolving the conflict.

 

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You know, you pretend that you’re resolving the conflict just to get off the HR table and not being punished by the company or fired, whatever.

 

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It’s more like what I’m hearing, or if I think I hear you correctly, it’s almost like when HR gets involved in that, it’s more like systemic, not systemic.

 

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It’s more like, yeah, it’s more like the symptom.

 

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They’re curing the symptom, right?

 

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You had this particular issue arise between two people and it’s systemic of the larger issue, but you’re not getting at the core because they’re like, okay, you know,

 

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This, this guy took my milk at lunch or whatever, you know, like, I mean, not, not to trivial.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Or a good point.

 

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And that’s an amazing example.

 

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Let’s say that a person has a very, very huge personal problem.

 

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00:15:36,439 –> 00:15:36,639

Right.

 

207

00:15:37,199 –> 00:15:38,999

That is affecting the business environment.

 

208

00:15:38,999 –> 00:15:39,119

Yeah.

 

209

00:15:41,439 –> 00:15:45,599

Does this employee will feel comfortable to bring this subject to the HR?

 

210

00:15:47,359 –> 00:15:49,399

How this information could impact?

 

211

00:15:50,239 –> 00:15:51,759

his position in the company.

 

212

00:15:51,759 –> 00:15:52,479

Right, right.

 

213

00:15:52,479 –> 00:15:56,399

So he just wants to address the immediate symptom.

 

214

00:15:56,679 –> 00:15:58,879

Like, I’ve got the sniffles.

 

215

00:15:58,959 –> 00:16:05,119

Just give me something to clear up the sniffles, not deal with the underlying infection, which is interesting.

 

216

00:16:05,199 –> 00:16:05,999

It’s interesting.

 

217

00:16:05,999 –> 00:16:10,639

I was going to say earlier when you talked about soft skills and you talked about universities and that.

 

218

00:16:11,199 –> 00:16:20,919

I, you know, I’ve got my own thoughts about that, but, you know, to me, it really goes, and I was listening to what you were saying on the soft skills and really, to me, it really goes back to like character development.

 

219

00:16:21,519 –> 00:16:35,519

You know, it used to be back, you know, not so long ago that like a good liberal arts degree was all about character development, you know, and yeah, we call it soft skills, but it’s that whole, you know,

 

220

00:16:37,719 –> 00:16:43,559

developing the character, you know, doing the things you’re talking about on top, you know, just, you know, what is good?

 

221

00:16:43,559 –> 00:16:44,799

What is evil?

 

222

00:16:44,959 –> 00:16:46,399

How do you treat other people?

 

223

00:16:46,399 –> 00:16:47,519

How do you address?

 

224

00:16:47,599 –> 00:16:49,279

How do you approach things with humility?

 

225

00:16:49,839 –> 00:16:51,519

You know, how do you communicate?

 

226

00:16:51,519 –> 00:16:52,479

How do you communicate?

 

227

00:16:52,479 –> 00:16:56,319

How do you walk in the other person’s moccasins for a mile?

 

228

00:16:56,799 –> 00:17:02,159

You know, walk in their shoes, try to see it from their, like, and, and I think.

 

229

00:17:02,719 –> 00:17:09,598

you know, just my own personal opinion at the K-12 and university level, we’ve gotten more, like you said, technical training.

 

230

00:17:10,118 –> 00:17:12,719

Like, you know, I can do my times tables.

 

231

00:17:12,719 –> 00:17:14,598

I know the periodic table.

 

232

00:17:14,598 –> 00:17:17,759

I know how to do combine, you know, do these technical things.

 

233

00:17:19,079 –> 00:17:26,319

And we seem to have, you know, the STEM stuff, which I, you know, is really important from an economics perspective, but you have to have that underlying

 

234

00:17:27,039 –> 00:17:27,759

character.

 

235

00:17:28,079 –> 00:17:39,839

And so it’s kind of interesting that when you started saying, oh, you know, how do they deal with conflict and some of the tools that you’re giving them on the soft skills, it just made me think about that, but not to go down.

 

236

00:17:40,239 –> 00:17:41,119

Yeah, no, you’re right.

 

237

00:17:41,279 –> 00:17:44,239

And you know what is very curious about all this?

 

238

00:17:44,239 –> 00:17:51,438

Normally, people, families and companies, they seek for help during the crisis.

 

239

00:17:51,438 –> 00:17:51,758

Right.

 

240

00:17:52,758 –> 00:17:54,998

when the chaos is inside the company.

 

241

00:17:55,518 –> 00:18:01,518

And this is, in my opinion, the huge mistake the companies do, right?

 

242

00:18:01,758 –> 00:18:08,238

Because training in soft skills, it’s not something that you learn, you grow during the crisis.

 

243

00:18:08,238 –> 00:18:08,558

Right.

 

244

00:18:10,158 –> 00:18:10,558

Right?

 

245

00:18:10,798 –> 00:18:20,238

This is something that you have to have like in an ongoing basis inside the company because you’re taking care of the people, the people who lead your company.

 

246

00:18:20,798 –> 00:18:21,198

Right.

 

247

00:18:21,198 –> 00:18:23,118

I bring some numbers for you here.

 

248

00:18:23,318 –> 00:18:24,718

I did a research here in the US.

 

249

00:18:24,718 –> 00:18:26,158

Look, how interesting is this?

 

250

00:18:26,558 –> 00:18:29,118

The soft skill trainings in companies.

 

251

00:18:29,278 –> 00:18:29,758

Okay.

 

252

00:18:29,838 –> 00:18:37,558

As of 2024, only 35% of organizations provide soft skills training to their employees.

 

253

00:18:37,558 –> 00:18:38,078

Interesting.

 

254

00:18:38,518 –> 00:18:39,598

In the United States.

 

255

00:18:39,918 –> 00:18:40,318

Yes.

 

256

00:18:40,358 –> 00:18:46,878

And then reading more, I see here a very interesting

 

257

00:18:47,678 –> 00:18:50,558

information.

 

258

00:18:51,038 –> 00:19:02,078

93% of employers seek candidates with strong communication skills and 68% of U.S.

 

259

00:19:02,078 –> 00:19:05,598

employees believe interpersonal skills

 

260

00:19:05,998 –> 00:19:08,318

will be crucial in 2025.

 

261

00:19:08,878 –> 00:19:29,878

So my question is this, and then when I saw, when I run into this, I said, oh my God, this is not right, because how can 93% of the employers, you know, believe that soft skills is important to the company and to the employees, but only 35%?

 

262

00:19:32,678 –> 00:19:34,958

provide training for their company.

 

263

00:19:35,678 –> 00:19:40,518

So basically what I’ve learned from this is, no, it’s interesting, right?

 

264

00:19:40,558 –> 00:19:43,238

I mean, look at this.

 

265

00:19:43,238 –> 00:19:51,358

So I am a business owner and I’m willing to hire somebody, but I want to hire somebody who have been through soft skills training.

 

266

00:19:52,078 –> 00:19:56,558

I don’t care about what kind of training this person went through.

 

267

00:19:56,958 –> 00:20:00,998

I just want to see in their resume that they’ve been through soft skills training.

 

268

00:20:00,998 –> 00:20:01,198

Right.

 

269

00:20:01,518 –> 00:20:01,998

Okay.

 

270

00:20:02,318 –> 00:20:13,038

So instead bringing the people in or train the people who are already working for the company with their own soft skills training, aligned with the culture, with the goals of the company.

 

271

00:20:13,038 –> 00:20:15,878

So this is like, it’s kind of weird for me.

 

272

00:20:15,878 –> 00:20:15,998

Yeah.

 

273

00:20:15,998 –> 00:20:22,158

Well, you know, it’s, well, it’s, I think it’s interesting because one of the things, and when we,

 

274

00:20:23,078 –> 00:20:30,798

when we were down at the show in Miami, it was kind of the focus of my presentation, which is, you know, how do you turn training into a strategic asset?

 

275

00:20:31,598 –> 00:20:35,358

And it goes to, it’s got to have a return.

 

276

00:20:35,758 –> 00:20:44,398

And I think what’s happened over the decades is, and who’s ever doing the training, and you know, you mentioned HR, right?

 

277

00:20:46,358 –> 00:20:50,958

There’s been a hesitancy to kind of show a return on soft skills training.

 

278

00:20:50,958 –> 00:20:52,238

Yet, to your point, it’s like,

 

279

00:20:53,038 –> 00:21:05,758

It’s, there’s so much demand for that skill set, but yet we don’t know how to quantify it or show that a dollar spent on soft skills training yields a $2 result.

 

280

00:21:05,758 –> 00:21:12,318

And what I really like about what you said to you when I asked you about, well, so what are your clients hoping to accomplish, right?

 

281

00:21:12,718 –> 00:21:20,958

Like the first thing you jumped at was, well, a lot of them have like a really high turnover and they’re getting feedback that it’s, you know, not,

 

282

00:21:21,678 –> 00:21:24,078

that it’s a, what’s the right, how do you say it?

 

283

00:21:25,038 –> 00:21:28,558

You know, the culture is a little contentious, let’s just say, you know, it’s.

 

284

00:21:29,118 –> 00:21:29,318

Yeah.

 

285

00:21:30,958 –> 00:21:35,118

I lose so much time dealing with conflicts in my daily basis, all the competitors.

 

286

00:21:35,118 –> 00:21:35,238

Right.

 

287

00:21:35,238 –> 00:21:38,238

And like, so I opt out, right?

 

288

00:21:38,558 –> 00:21:40,078

And that’s the turnover.

 

289

00:21:40,238 –> 00:21:41,678

But turnover, right?

 

290

00:21:41,678 –> 00:21:44,718

And the other thing you said is like lost productivity, right?

 

291

00:21:44,718 –> 00:21:49,838

Like I used to be able to do 100 things an hour and now our unit is down to

 

292

00:21:50,318 –> 00:21:56,358

50 because whatever your measure of productivity is because you’re dealing with all this interpersonal conflict.

 

293

00:21:56,798 –> 00:21:59,998

And I think that’s one of the challenges.

 

294

00:22:00,398 –> 00:22:06,638

we as an industry have on this, on a soft skill training is like, look, you know, it’s got to get down to the bottom line.

 

295

00:22:06,638 –> 00:22:11,278

It’s a little easier to see on the bottom line when you’re talking about a hard skill, right?

 

296

00:22:11,918 –> 00:22:16,318

But, but, but yet you hear the clamoring for leadership training.

 

297

00:22:17,438 –> 00:22:26,878

And I think so much of it has become perceived, I should say, as checking a box rather than having an impact.

 

298

00:22:27,758 –> 00:22:28,078

Right.

 

299

00:22:28,078 –> 00:22:37,318

And so I love what you said, what you first say is like, well, they’ve got this turnover problem and they see that there’s, you know, there’s a lot of angst and conflict with the organization.

 

300

00:22:37,318 –> 00:22:37,998

What can you do?

 

301

00:22:38,318 –> 00:22:46,398

So, and those numbers you throw out on the research, that’s just, it’s fascinating.

 

302

00:22:46,878 –> 00:22:49,918

And it goes to me, you know, it goes back to all that character development.

 

303

00:22:50,318 –> 00:22:53,678

But you got to kind of deal with the people you have, right?

 

304

00:22:54,158 –> 00:22:55,078

You can’t go back.

 

305

00:22:55,078 –> 00:22:55,198

Yeah.

 

306

00:22:55,518 –> 00:22:59,598

I have one example here that might be interesting to share with you.

 

307

00:22:59,678 –> 00:23:08,438

I was consulted by one financial institution here in Miami that was complaining a lot about the turnover, right?

 

308

00:23:08,558 –> 00:23:11,278

And well, we cannot afford this anymore.

 

309

00:23:11,438 –> 00:23:17,278

We bring people in, we train them, we provide clients, you know, all kind of stuff.

 

310

00:23:17,278 –> 00:23:19,678

And then after a year, they leave.

 

311

00:23:20,558 –> 00:23:27,918

And I said, look, and I asked him, what kind of program do you have to understand what’s going on in your employees’ mind?

 

312

00:23:28,238 –> 00:23:29,118

Why they’re leaving?

 

313

00:23:29,758 –> 00:23:31,678

You know, there’s a reason for that.

 

314

00:23:31,838 –> 00:23:34,798

This is not something that you’re not a lucky company.

 

315

00:23:35,118 –> 00:23:44,638

There’s a reason and some things that we need to find out within the teams to understand what’s going on and address the situation properly, right?

 

316

00:23:45,198 –> 00:23:45,758

And then

 

317

00:23:47,438 –> 00:23:58,478

I sent a proposal to do the training program, as well as to manage the conflicts from my side, which I can explain later what we do after the training program.

 

318

00:23:59,678 –> 00:24:03,918

And the company said, we don’t have the budget, we just don’t have the budget.

 

319

00:24:03,918 –> 00:24:13,998

So when you see the P&L of the financial institution, you ask yourself, if you don’t have budget to take care of your employees,

 

320

00:24:15,038 –> 00:24:20,878

and to solve the turnover problem that you’re facing, what is the budget for?

 

321

00:24:21,278 –> 00:24:21,598

Right.

 

322

00:24:22,638 –> 00:24:22,958

Right?

 

323

00:24:23,358 –> 00:24:36,158

And then I ask, when you lose like a banker, when you lose like any employee in your institution, how many clients this person might take into a different place?

 

324

00:24:36,958 –> 00:24:42,318

How much money are you losing, you know, with this situation?

 

325

00:24:42,958 –> 00:24:44,518

So it’s something interesting.

 

326

00:24:44,558 –> 00:24:45,598

I think you got the point.

 

327

00:24:45,598 –> 00:24:52,078

You know, training in soft skills, it’s not only in crisis, it’s not only during the chaos.

 

328

00:24:52,718 –> 00:24:57,518

It’s something that the companies need to understand that is a gift to the employees.

 

329

00:24:59,438 –> 00:25:09,838

You know, if you want to value your employee, if you want to have this employee committed to the company, you have to offer this employee some sort of training

 

330

00:25:10,158 –> 00:25:12,598

and tools to manage their lives, right?

 

331

00:25:13,038 –> 00:25:17,518

I got here some numbers that it’s very impressive concerning the turnover.

 

332

00:25:17,638 –> 00:25:22,398

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this before, but it’s crazy.

 

333

00:25:23,118 –> 00:25:23,918

Look at this.

 

334

00:25:25,078 –> 00:25:34,958

When you have like the turnover situation in the company, when you’re talking about hourly workers, okay, just regular hourly workers.

 

335

00:25:35,678 –> 00:25:39,678

the cost of replacement can reach 1500 per person.

 

336

00:25:39,678 –> 00:25:40,238

Oh, easily.

 

337

00:25:40,318 –> 00:25:40,558

Easily.

 

338

00:25:40,718 –> 00:25:40,958

Yeah.

 

339

00:25:42,238 –> 00:25:42,638

Yes.

 

340

00:25:42,638 –> 00:25:50,118

Every time the company like loses one employee, one hourly worker, they’re going to spend at least.

 

341

00:25:50,278 –> 00:25:51,518

And that’s just to replace them.

 

342

00:25:51,838 –> 00:25:52,558

If we’re talking.

 

343

00:25:52,558 –> 00:25:55,038

Just getting another warm body in there.

 

344

00:25:57,038 –> 00:25:57,518

That’s right.

 

345

00:25:57,518 –> 00:25:57,958

That’s right.

 

346

00:25:57,958 –> 00:26:00,478

If we are talking about a technical position,

 

347

00:26:00,958 –> 00:26:06,238

it goes from 100 to 150% of the employees annual sum.

 

348

00:26:06,238 –> 00:26:06,558

Yeah.

 

349

00:26:07,358 –> 00:26:07,598

Yep.

 

350

00:26:08,798 –> 00:26:17,278

And if we are talking about a C level, we are talking about approximately 220% of the annual sum.

 

351

00:26:18,158 –> 00:26:18,558

Okay.

 

352

00:26:19,198 –> 00:26:29,758

So when a company says, I don’t have the budget to do the training and retain the good values that I have in my company,

 

353

00:26:30,558 –> 00:26:34,558

I honestly have some difficulties to understand that.

 

354

00:26:34,678 –> 00:26:34,958

Yeah.

 

355

00:26:35,198 –> 00:26:50,718

You know, because when you have employees happy, employees with additional tools, with more expertise in how to manage conflict, in how to communicate the impact within the company, it’s going to be amazing.

 

356

00:26:51,918 –> 00:26:59,758

Yeah, well, it’s interesting because I think it goes back to, are you looking at it as a budget or as an investment, right?

 

357

00:27:00,318 –> 00:27:14,678

And a lot of training firms, and that’s like I said, I love the way you started that was, it’s they never show the investment, they don’t treat it, they don’t look at it, they don’t present it as an investment, right?

 

358

00:27:14,718 –> 00:27:21,558

Like, you know, one of the things one of my mentors once said, and it has nothing to do with training, but it was costs always precede revenue.

 

359

00:27:21,718 –> 00:27:24,638

You know, you got to invest and then you get the return.

 

360

00:27:24,998 –> 00:27:25,398

Right.

 

361

00:27:25,478 –> 00:27:26,318

And that’s right.

 

362

00:27:26,838 –> 00:27:26,998

Yeah.

 

363

00:27:26,998 –> 00:27:37,718

You may not have budget for it, but to your point, it’s like you’re either going to have come up with the investment in this or you’re going to pay the continual turnover.

 

364

00:27:37,958 –> 00:27:42,198

And to your point on finding the folks, it’s like, and then they have, and then there’s

 

365

00:27:43,358 –> 00:27:55,598

And then there’s the cost of them coming up to full productivity, but also the cost of them integrating into the work team and coming up to full productivity and having those.

 

366

00:27:55,598 –> 00:28:02,038

And we all have, at every organization, we have this, they’re like the cultural icons of the organization.

 

367

00:28:02,758 –> 00:28:03,318

You know what I mean?

 

368

00:28:03,318 –> 00:28:10,758

Like they can be at the entry level position or they can be at a senior position, but they’re like people that embody the

 

369

00:28:11,078 –> 00:28:12,598

culture of the organization.

 

370

00:28:12,598 –> 00:28:18,158

And, and if those folks are turning over, it’s, you know, it’s catastrophic and.

 

371

00:28:20,518 –> 00:28:21,718

You can lose the culture.

 

372

00:28:21,758 –> 00:28:21,878

Yeah.

 

373

00:28:22,358 –> 00:28:22,518

Yeah.

 

374

00:28:22,758 –> 00:28:22,998

Yeah.

 

375

00:28:23,478 –> 00:28:28,438

You know, and, and so treating it as it’s, it’s not a budget.

 

376

00:28:28,438 –> 00:28:28,998

Yes.

 

377

00:28:29,158 –> 00:28:30,638

But we need to make an investment.

 

378

00:28:30,638 –> 00:28:33,798

So where do you want to make, we don’t have unlimited investment dollars, obviously.

 

379

00:28:33,958 –> 00:28:34,758

We’re not a government.

 

380

00:28:34,758 –> 00:28:36,438

We, most companies can’t just print money.

 

381

00:28:36,998 –> 00:28:41,678

But to your point, you bring things like that and you go, okay, well, what are we shooting for?

 

382

00:28:41,678 –> 00:28:45,318

We’re shooting for a 10 point reduction in turnover of entry level staff.

 

383

00:28:46,038 –> 00:28:49,798

Because if we can get a 10 point reduction in turnover, let’s do the math.

 

384

00:28:51,558 –> 00:28:58,118

That’s $100,000 savings or a quarter or a half million dollar or millions of dollars, depending on the size of the organization.

 

385

00:28:59,798 –> 00:29:02,398

But to do that, we got to make this investment.

 

386

00:29:02,478 –> 00:29:05,118

And investments by their very nature are risky, right?

 

387

00:29:05,118 –> 00:29:08,278

Because there’s no guarantee you’re going to ever get the return.

 

388

00:29:08,598 –> 00:29:10,398

But you’re doing that when you’re doing product development.

 

389

00:29:10,398 –> 00:29:12,038

You’re doing that when you’re doing sales and marketing.

 

390

00:29:12,038 –> 00:29:13,078

You’re doing it all the time.

 

391

00:29:13,718 –> 00:29:14,998

And that’s it.

 

392

00:29:15,078 –> 00:29:17,398

So, okay, so somebody says,

 

393

00:29:18,678 –> 00:29:20,518

All right, you know, my productivity is down.

 

394

00:29:20,518 –> 00:29:24,198

I’ve got this angst in the organization, you know, turnover.

 

395

00:29:24,198 –> 00:29:26,038

We’re focusing on the goal, right?

 

396

00:29:26,038 –> 00:29:27,238

We got the right target.

 

397

00:29:27,238 –> 00:29:36,518

We’re not just going to check a box saying everybody went to conflict resolution training and therefore we’re awesome.

 

398

00:29:36,877 –> 00:29:38,597

They’re actually trying to achieve something.

 

399

00:29:39,157 –> 00:29:43,877

And they bring you guys in and who are you training and what are you trying to teach them?

 

400

00:29:43,877 –> 00:29:47,557

We touched a little bit on the soft skills, but how do you do that?

 

401

00:29:47,917 –> 00:29:51,797

Do you come in and you talk to everybody?

 

402

00:29:51,797 –> 00:29:53,077

Is it a department?

 

403

00:29:53,077 –> 00:29:53,877

Is it managers?

 

404

00:29:53,877 –> 00:29:55,317

Is it frontline workers?

 

405

00:29:56,037 –> 00:29:59,477

Who are you training and what are you teaching them?

 

406

00:29:59,477 –> 00:30:01,797

What do they need to learn how to know and do?

 

407

00:30:02,517 –> 00:30:05,717

I know that’s a lot of questions all at once, so I just try and get them all in.

 

408

00:30:06,517 –> 00:30:07,597

Yeah, I’ll try to.

 

409

00:30:07,597 –> 00:30:08,717

No, no, that’s perfect.

 

410

00:30:08,717 –> 00:30:09,197

That’s perfect.

 

411

00:30:09,197 –> 00:30:15,157

I think I might have a couple of answers, but I think all of them will lead the same direction.

 

412

00:30:15,157 –> 00:30:15,637

Okay.

 

413

00:30:15,957 –> 00:30:19,357

So basically this call always come from the company.

 

414

00:30:19,717 –> 00:30:20,117

Okay.

 

415

00:30:20,197 –> 00:30:30,037

Because the company is facing a problem within the legal department, for instance, or the company is facing a dispute between the marketing and the commercial department.

 

416

00:30:30,517 –> 00:30:30,917

Okay.

 

417

00:30:31,237 –> 00:30:33,957

So first of all, we understand

 

418

00:30:35,157 –> 00:30:39,797

the pains behind, you know, the company.

 

419

00:30:39,837 –> 00:30:42,357

I mean, tell me your problems, right?

 

420

00:30:42,797 –> 00:30:46,597

Where do you think you’re losing time, productivity?

 

421

00:30:46,917 –> 00:30:52,277

Where is your area that you lose many people over the years, right?

 

422

00:30:52,517 –> 00:30:54,037

You have a turnover problem.

 

423

00:30:54,437 –> 00:30:57,157

So basically, first, we understand

 

424

00:30:57,677 –> 00:30:59,597

where is the focus of the problem?

 

425

00:30:59,717 –> 00:31:00,717

Where is the problem?

 

426

00:31:01,077 –> 00:31:01,397

Right?

 

427

00:31:01,717 –> 00:31:12,637

It’s difficult to, because sometimes you can come, some companies already hire me to come and just say, look, let’s have a general presentation and training in conflict management.

 

428

00:31:13,077 –> 00:31:19,117

Let’s give these people more tools to manage their conflicts and not bring the problems to the conflict.

 

429

00:31:19,277 –> 00:31:19,957

Let’s put it this way.

 

430

00:31:20,517 –> 00:31:21,157

It works.

 

431

00:31:21,237 –> 00:31:21,797

I like that.

 

432

00:31:21,957 –> 00:31:22,277

Okay.

 

433

00:31:22,317 –> 00:31:24,117

I think it’s a first step.

 

434

00:31:24,597 –> 00:31:24,997

Okay.

 

435

00:31:25,397 –> 00:31:26,277

But usually,

 

436

00:31:26,957 –> 00:31:36,437

when the company calls, they already bring a specific situation or problem they’re facing inside the company, okay?

 

437

00:31:36,917 –> 00:31:40,517

So let’s say that the problem is in the marketing department, okay?

 

438

00:31:40,597 –> 00:31:48,197

And they don’t know exactly if the problem is like in the entire department or between certain employees, whatever.

 

439

00:31:48,717 –> 00:31:55,797

What we do, we step in the company, okay, in the marketing department, we do some interviews,

 

440

00:31:56,757 –> 00:32:05,437

Most of our work are confidential, so the employees can safely disclosure whatever is going on within the department.

 

441

00:32:05,637 –> 00:32:06,117

Okay.

 

442

00:32:06,437 –> 00:32:08,197

And we understand the situation.

 

443

00:32:08,677 –> 00:32:16,197

We try to get as many information as possible to then develop a training program for that team.

 

444

00:32:17,117 –> 00:32:17,477

Okay.

 

445

00:32:17,957 –> 00:32:21,717

Because sometimes conflicts happen every day.

 

446

00:32:22,077 –> 00:32:23,637

but sometimes they’re just different.

 

447

00:32:23,797 –> 00:32:32,677

So it’s hard for me to say, okay, I’m going to just pick here on my shelf this training program and give to them without knowing the actual problem.

 

448

00:32:33,317 –> 00:32:35,797

So first of all, I understand the problem.

 

449

00:32:36,197 –> 00:32:40,277

I try to understand the situation they’re living, and then…

 

450

00:32:40,517 –> 00:32:54,277

we design or we pick one of our training programs to provide them knowledge, to provide them tools, to provide them reflection, to understand that sometimes the problem is not the company.

 

451

00:32:54,677 –> 00:32:56,997

Sometimes the problem is not the colleague.

 

452

00:32:57,477 –> 00:32:59,477

Sometimes the problem is not the boss.

 

453

00:33:00,037 –> 00:33:03,197

Sometimes the problem is us.

 

454

00:33:03,517 –> 00:33:05,517

That requires some self-reflection.

 

455

00:33:05,997 –> 00:33:07,917

Oh yes, lots of self-reflection.

 

456

00:33:07,997 –> 00:33:09,597

And that’s what I said in the beginning.

 

457

00:33:09,757 –> 00:33:15,277

In my opinion, the pillar, the foundation of our lives is the self-knowledge.

 

458

00:33:15,357 –> 00:33:19,357

Whoever is willing to go in that path will have a better life.

 

459

00:33:20,677 –> 00:33:22,397

a peaceful life, right?

 

460

00:33:22,397 –> 00:33:25,117

Because won’t get involved in any kind of conflicts, right?

 

461

00:33:25,437 –> 00:33:27,917

So basically, that’s what we do.

 

462

00:33:27,917 –> 00:33:36,557

And then when we decide the training program, we provide the training program, and I can mention some that we have available.

 

463

00:33:36,637 –> 00:33:43,677

And after that, we start measuring, you know, if those problems still are taking place

 

464

00:33:44,077 –> 00:33:44,957

And what’s the tip?

 

465

00:33:44,957 –> 00:33:51,797

I mean, we turned about, we talked about turnover, but what are some of the other things you measure to identify that the problem, you know, here’s the problem and…

 

466

00:33:52,797 –> 00:33:53,597

Productivity.

 

467

00:33:53,597 –> 00:33:55,597

Productivity, right?

 

468

00:33:55,837 –> 00:33:58,077

Sometimes the team is not delivering the work.

 

469

00:33:58,077 –> 00:34:01,517

Sometimes the quality of the work, it’s not the way it used to be.

 

470

00:34:01,637 –> 00:34:07,437

And most of the times we see that these sort of problems happen because people are not getting along.

 

471

00:34:08,956 –> 00:34:09,357

Okay.

 

472

00:34:09,677 –> 00:34:11,437

So they are not delivering on time.

 

473

00:34:11,597 –> 00:34:13,117

The spreadsheet is incomplete.

 

474

00:34:13,117 –> 00:34:21,917

The presentation is ugly, whatever, you know, because they, they need to be feeling well to deliver a good, a good search, a good work.

 

475

00:34:22,237 –> 00:34:22,637

Right.

 

476

00:34:22,637 –> 00:34:37,677

So basically once we start the training program, what I’ve seen, you know, in action is that it’s very interesting, Jeff, because people start relying in our company as a neutral.

 

477

00:34:38,956 –> 00:34:44,357

and they start sharing other problems that might be affecting the business environment.

 

478

00:34:45,357 –> 00:34:53,996

So we host these problems with Invertus and we deliver the employee back, you know, in a different way.

 

479

00:34:54,237 –> 00:34:55,516

We try to fix

 

480

00:34:57,237 –> 00:35:00,637

their problem, we tried to bring some brainstorming to their lives.

 

481

00:35:01,117 –> 00:35:05,277

So they ended up feeling better in the business environment.

 

482

00:35:05,437 –> 00:35:22,397

You know, most of the times, I don’t like to say most of the times, but I mean, I have a bunch of examples that I handle within companies that the actual problem within the company was personal problems.

 

483

00:35:22,597 –> 00:35:22,957

Okay.

 

484

00:35:24,157 –> 00:35:24,637

Okay.

 

485

00:35:25,117 –> 00:35:25,677

So

 

486

00:35:26,397 –> 00:35:31,357

People on and off are projecting their problems onto others.

 

487

00:35:31,757 –> 00:35:34,277

The projecting word is okay, right?

 

488

00:35:34,277 –> 00:35:44,637

I mean, we don’t want to recognize that this is a problem that belongs to me, so it’s easier to transfer my problem to my wife, my colleague, or my boss.

 

489

00:35:44,997 –> 00:35:46,757

I don’t want to deal with my own conflict.

 

490

00:35:46,757 –> 00:35:51,197

So it’s easier to say it’s his fault, not mine, right?

 

491

00:35:51,597 –> 00:35:53,757

So I see this problem on and off.

 

492

00:35:54,677 –> 00:35:56,557

a bunch of times, hundreds of times.

 

493

00:35:57,837 –> 00:36:01,917

Because sometimes people bought an apartment and they don’t have the money to pay the mortgage.

 

494

00:36:02,557 –> 00:36:07,077

Sometimes they’re getting divorced or they’re getting the first child and they don’t have the budget for that.

 

495

00:36:07,677 –> 00:36:14,397

So a lot of problems, you know, personal problems start to affect the business environment.

 

496

00:36:15,517 –> 00:36:15,997

Okay.

 

497

00:36:16,237 –> 00:36:19,997

Because the person thinks the company doesn’t pay very well.

 

498

00:36:20,797 –> 00:36:23,677

The employee thinks that the colleagues are not helping

 

499

00:36:24,717 –> 00:36:28,517

him in that particular task because he has problems.

 

500

00:36:28,557 –> 00:36:33,637

He has personal problems and he’s projecting the personal problems onto the call.

 

501

00:36:33,637 –> 00:36:35,557

So, yeah.

 

502

00:36:36,077 –> 00:36:36,317

Yeah.

 

503

00:36:36,717 –> 00:36:50,717

So, I mean, I think I’m listening and I, I understand, but that type of, you know, building the self-awareness and, and that knowledge, like, I mean, these are foundational.

 

504

00:36:51,357 –> 00:36:54,077

elements of a person’s being, right?

 

505

00:36:54,197 –> 00:37:02,317

Like, like, like, you know, I can teach you pretty easily how to do something technical, right?

 

506

00:37:02,317 –> 00:37:11,357

It’s like, push this, turn, you know, push button A, turn knob B, do these six steps, and voila, we’ve made a souffle, right?

 

507

00:37:14,557 –> 00:37:16,637

You know, and that doesn’t require you to

 

508

00:37:17,917 –> 00:37:19,677

change who you are, right?

 

509

00:37:19,677 –> 00:37:29,277

It just means you’re pushing this button, turning this knob, adding these ingredients, throwing it in the oven, you know, and, and now you know how to cook something or make something.

 

510

00:37:30,957 –> 00:37:38,397

You know, what you’re talking about is like really deep in there, in the person’s psyche and, and, and who they are.

 

511

00:37:39,077 –> 00:37:46,797

And, and I, how, maybe this gets to neuro linguistic programming or something, but like, how can that,

 

512

00:37:48,077 –> 00:37:55,957

How can you be effective doing that in, you know, such a short, relatively short amount of intervention, right?

 

513

00:37:55,957 –> 00:38:01,277

Like if you’re talking, like, you know what I’m saying, like, because I’m sure, I’m assuming you’re not there for, you know.

 

514

00:38:01,277 –> 00:38:01,997

Yes, I understand.

 

515

00:38:02,677 –> 00:38:03,277

Training a guy.

 

516

00:38:03,277 –> 00:38:07,157

It’s a deeper and more difficult learning process.

 

517

00:38:07,157 –> 00:38:09,037

Yeah, so how did, how did, I understand.

 

518

00:38:09,037 –> 00:38:12,077

So help me understand that, how that’s even, how that’s possible.

 

519

00:38:12,077 –> 00:38:13,597

And I think that’s where you see a lot of,

 

520

00:38:15,557 –> 00:38:26,117

You know, we were talking about character before and some of the soft skills, you know, they’re important, but they’re so closely tied to the person that it’s hard.

 

521

00:38:26,197 –> 00:38:36,637

Like, how do you get down to that level where the person has to open themselves up to say, here’s a part of me that needs to change?

 

522

00:38:36,637 –> 00:38:37,277

Like, that’s…

 

523

00:38:38,197 –> 00:38:40,237

That’s really, that’s really hard.

 

524

00:38:40,237 –> 00:38:40,557

That’s hard.

 

525

00:38:40,717 –> 00:38:44,677

One of the problems, one of the problems, Jeff, it’s an amazing point.

 

526

00:38:44,677 –> 00:38:46,477

I’m glad you brought this issue.

 

527

00:38:46,477 –> 00:39:03,677

And I think one of the major problems I see is the lack of consistency in terms of getting to know yourself and having like the ability to stick with the plan and keep learning and pursuing changes in your life.

 

528

00:39:04,637 –> 00:39:16,077

So the world is the way it is because there is no consistency, you know, in people to manage their own thoughts and fears and pains, whatever.

 

529

00:39:16,317 –> 00:39:16,797

Okay.

 

530

00:39:17,037 –> 00:39:19,597

So what I would say is this, you’re completely right.

 

531

00:39:20,477 –> 00:39:21,437

It’s a different path.

 

532

00:39:21,917 –> 00:39:25,837

It’s a more solid and encouraging, not encouraging, but

 

533

00:39:26,557 –> 00:39:29,837

challenging, better same path for people in general.

 

534

00:39:29,997 –> 00:39:45,277

But I would say that sooner or later, every one of us will have to connect with our self-knowledge, either through crisis, either through chaos or as a growing process.

 

535

00:39:45,517 –> 00:39:46,077

Okay.

 

536

00:39:46,397 –> 00:39:48,077

So nobody can escape from this.

 

537

00:39:48,157 –> 00:39:49,397

I 100% agree with that.

 

538

00:39:50,157 –> 00:39:54,317

But making the changes, you’re talking fundamentals.

 

539

00:39:54,957 –> 00:39:56,317

change to a person.

 

540

00:39:57,037 –> 00:39:57,757

And that’s hard.

 

541

00:39:57,757 –> 00:40:12,317

So, so, so how do you, because the other thing I would also imagine is if the person does go through that change, if you’re able to, in your training program, help them with that, that change that it, it propagates.

 

542

00:40:13,517 –> 00:40:18,317

throughout their life, not just a work conflict or something like that.

 

543

00:40:18,397 –> 00:40:42,397

Like, you know, like one of the interesting things with the behavioral psychologists and behavioral therapy, you know, to get over phobias and things like that, that was interesting was there was a big debate when they first started introducing, and I’m not a psychologist, so, you know, please pardon me if I mess this up a little, but, but my understanding is,

 

544

00:40:42,997 –> 00:40:51,037

when, when the behaviorists first started, there was a big conflict of, well, you’re just, you’re not addressing the root cause.

 

545

00:40:51,037 –> 00:40:56,717

You’re, you’re, you know, they’re just gonna get a phobia somewhere else if you address this phobia, let’s say.

 

546

00:40:56,717 –> 00:41:00,877

And it turned out, no, but they never got over the phobia.

 

547

00:41:00,877 –> 00:41:11,677

They just developed courage and they got over their phobia because they could courageously, they had the courage to face the phobia, but it, right, but then it also,

 

548

00:41:12,477 –> 00:41:15,117

meant they had courage to address other things in their lives.

 

549

00:41:15,997 –> 00:41:18,277

And so it fundamentally changed their life.

 

550

00:41:18,277 –> 00:41:21,477

If you had, like, say, a fear of elevators, right?

 

551

00:41:21,477 –> 00:41:31,596

It’s like you get over the fear of elevators, and next thing you know, you’re addressing issues with personal relationships and other things because now you didn’t just get over a fear of elevators.

 

552

00:41:32,076 –> 00:41:33,996

you developed the courage to overcome a fear.

 

553

00:41:34,476 –> 00:41:53,836

And now you’re applying that, you know, so like this, do you see things like that with what the training you’re doing on the interpersonal and the conflict resolution that it’s like, well, we solved the problem, you know, turnover is down, productivity is up, you know, we’re happy, but do you ever come around

 

554

00:41:54,236 –> 00:42:08,076

you know, a year later and say, you know, like, do you have any, does that kind of, because I would imagine that would happen with fundamental changes to people when you’re talking with the type of changes you’re talking about.

 

555

00:42:08,716 –> 00:42:15,916

Yeah, I would say that this is like, in order to change somebody, it might take like a lifetime, right?

 

556

00:42:16,396 –> 00:42:22,156

I’ve been studying self-knowledge for over 30 years and I still have a lot to learn.

 

557

00:42:22,876 –> 00:42:24,956

Every day, it’s a learning process for me.

 

558

00:42:25,556 –> 00:42:28,476

What I would say is this, we are not a therapist as well.

 

559

00:42:28,476 –> 00:42:30,476

The difference is between Virtus.

 

560

00:42:30,636 –> 00:42:33,516

No, but it’s very, it’s connected.

 

561

00:42:33,676 –> 00:42:38,716

Sometimes I get referrals from therapists, couples therapists.

 

562

00:42:38,956 –> 00:42:43,116

They send the clients over to Virtus to help them overcome the conflicts.

 

563

00:42:43,596 –> 00:42:45,996

So sometimes I work together with therapists.

 

564

00:42:46,076 –> 00:42:47,756

We don’t dig the past.

 

565

00:42:48,316 –> 00:42:51,596

We don’t try to understand the past as a purpose.

 

566

00:42:51,676 –> 00:42:52,156

Right, right, right.

 

567

00:42:52,396 –> 00:42:52,796

Yeah.

 

568

00:42:53,476 –> 00:42:54,716

It does, right?

 

569

00:42:55,356 –> 00:43:08,716

But sometimes it is important to understand our past experience because by our past experience, our values, our beliefs, our personality, this is how we shape our current life.

 

570

00:43:09,676 –> 00:43:10,156

Okay?

 

571

00:43:10,156 –> 00:43:14,636

So sometimes, or in some of our trainings, we help people understand

 

572

00:43:15,356 –> 00:43:17,116

How did they shape their lives?

 

573

00:43:17,116 –> 00:43:18,876

Okay, tell me about your past.

 

574

00:43:19,196 –> 00:43:21,356

Tell me about your past experience.

 

575

00:43:21,596 –> 00:43:23,756

What did you inherit from your parents?

 

576

00:43:23,996 –> 00:43:25,996

What did you learn from your folks?

 

577

00:43:26,716 –> 00:43:27,116

Right?

 

578

00:43:27,276 –> 00:43:31,236

Tell me what is right and what is wrong in your values.

 

579

00:43:31,236 –> 00:43:38,876

And when you see that in a training program, that your values are totally different

 

580

00:43:39,276 –> 00:43:52,756

than your colleague and doesn’t mean that one is right and the other one is wrong, you start to understand that you cannot judge other people with their own values and the way you see the world.

 

581

00:43:53,596 –> 00:43:57,356

So this is basically the major problem I see in my profession.

 

582

00:43:57,916 –> 00:43:59,356

You know, people judge

 

583

00:44:00,316 –> 00:44:00,796

others.

 

584

00:44:01,276 –> 00:44:04,396

They say, I wouldn’t do if I were in his shoes.

 

585

00:44:05,036 –> 00:44:06,396

I think this is crazy.

 

586

00:44:06,396 –> 00:44:07,756

How he could do that?

 

587

00:44:08,636 –> 00:44:11,036

I would never take that position in my life.

 

588

00:44:11,116 –> 00:44:21,116

Okay, but this is you based in your personality, values, beliefs, you know, and past experiences.

 

589

00:44:21,596 –> 00:44:23,036

So everybody’s different.

 

590

00:44:23,756 –> 00:44:25,116

Even twins, okay?

 

591

00:44:25,196 –> 00:44:27,756

I’ve trained twins in a family.

 

592

00:44:28,396 –> 00:44:30,476

They were completely different.

 

593

00:44:30,476 –> 00:44:34,476

Same food, same house, same education, okay?

 

594

00:44:34,556 –> 00:44:36,796

Same trips, same everything.

 

595

00:44:37,756 –> 00:44:39,876

And they were totally different.

 

596

00:44:40,236 –> 00:44:41,036

Different people.

 

597

00:44:42,476 –> 00:44:42,956

Okay?

 

598

00:44:43,276 –> 00:44:53,836

So when we teach people in our training programs how to understand yourself and understand that people are different, okay?

 

599

00:44:54,476 –> 00:45:05,276

we are able to take out of the table, to take out of that group the problems with judgment, okay?

 

600

00:45:06,316 –> 00:45:15,356

One of the problems, one of the major problems that relates to conflicts, it’s when people are judging others with their own values, right?

 

601

00:45:15,756 –> 00:45:23,996

Another issue here that I think it’s important to mention, we teach people how our internal conflicts might affect

 

602

00:45:25,276 –> 00:45:52,956

the relationships these are simple things Jeff okay but people are so much in the autopilot that they cannot see so let’s say that I have a very important meeting I have this beautiful and amazing interview with you today and for some reason I left my house late for whatever reason okay my kids were given like some trouble I was late I lost the time whatever

 

603

00:45:53,996 –> 00:45:58,196

my way to the office would be very stressful.

 

604

00:45:59,516 –> 00:45:59,996

Okay?

 

605

00:46:00,156 –> 00:46:09,596

If somebody is stopped in the light and when it’s green, they don’t move, I’m going to horn a crazy guy to make that person move.

 

606

00:46:10,636 –> 00:46:11,116

Right?

 

607

00:46:12,236 –> 00:46:13,636

And doesn’t mean that I’m a crazy guy.

 

608

00:46:13,636 –> 00:46:14,716

I’m a crazy typist.

 

609

00:46:14,796 –> 00:46:15,596

I’m just late.

 

610

00:46:17,716 –> 00:46:36,236

So basically, when we show people within the company that they might be facing internal problems, personal problems, and they are projecting onto the colleagues or in the company, they start realizing that the company is not the enemy.

 

611

00:46:37,276 –> 00:46:38,876

The company is not against them.

 

612

00:46:39,836 –> 00:46:47,036

The company actually is a support, you know, is one of the pillars to help the employee overcome that problem.

 

613

00:46:48,156 –> 00:46:53,196

Another example, and I think by giving an example, we will answer your question, which is really good.

 

614

00:46:54,716 –> 00:47:01,756

By teaching people the power of communication, the power of listening, which is a simple thing.

 

615

00:47:02,156 –> 00:47:03,996

People think they know how to listen.

 

616

00:47:04,556 –> 00:47:08,076

And this is one of the most difficult tools ever.

 

617

00:47:09,516 –> 00:47:11,756

Well, as you said, I think people know how to hear.

 

618

00:47:11,836 –> 00:47:12,676

That’s right.

 

619

00:47:12,996 –> 00:47:13,516

That’s right.

 

620

00:47:13,756 –> 00:47:16,796

Well, listening requires active engagement.

 

621

00:47:17,356 –> 00:47:29,036

Like you have to actually, you know, I remember long ago, in my grad school, you know, they were talking, we’re talking about communication, exactly what you’re talking about.

 

622

00:47:29,676 –> 00:47:37,116

And the person said, most people in a conversation, when they’re not the one talking, they’re just thinking about what they’re going to say next.

 

623

00:47:37,836 –> 00:47:39,036

and not listening.

 

624

00:47:39,756 –> 00:47:39,916

What?

 

625

00:47:39,916 –> 00:47:40,956

Do you know how we call that?

 

626

00:47:41,836 –> 00:47:41,996

Yeah.

 

627

00:47:42,796 –> 00:47:43,396

Defensive listening.

 

628

00:47:44,316 –> 00:47:44,556

Yeah.

 

629

00:47:44,636 –> 00:47:48,396

Well, you know, I mean, that school was a few years ago for me.

 

630

00:47:48,556 –> 00:47:50,716

And it stuck with me though, like that.

 

631

00:47:50,716 –> 00:47:58,356

Yeah, you know, the defensive listening, you’re sitting there like listening, but really planning, okay, what’s my next move?

 

632

00:47:58,356 –> 00:47:59,676

What am I going to say next?

 

633

00:47:59,956 –> 00:48:03,196

And not really hearing or listening to what the person’s saying.

 

634

00:48:03,996 –> 00:48:14,516

And when I, with myself personally, when I started doing that, I found the conversations much more interesting, right?

 

635

00:48:14,516 –> 00:48:18,236

Because like people say some really interesting things.

 

636

00:48:18,556 –> 00:48:19,676

If you listen to them.

 

637

00:48:19,916 –> 00:48:21,636

You engage with the person, right?

 

638

00:48:21,676 –> 00:48:22,236

You engage.

 

639

00:48:22,716 –> 00:48:23,436

Right, right.

 

640

00:48:23,436 –> 00:48:30,076

Like they have like an interesting, and getting, you know, back to, like, I just love learning things.

 

641

00:48:30,316 –> 00:48:32,676

And, you know, it’s one of the reasons why I’m in this industry.

 

642

00:48:33,276 –> 00:48:36,236

And so when you actually listen to people, you’ll learn something.

 

643

00:48:37,276 –> 00:48:45,636

Now, it’s not always, it’s not always something you want to learn because sometimes you’ll learn something about yourself that you

 

644

00:48:46,716 –> 00:48:52,076

are not happy with, you know, but you always learn something.

 

645

00:48:52,236 –> 00:48:52,556

Yes.

 

646

00:48:52,716 –> 00:48:54,556

And you know, you’re totally right.

 

647

00:48:54,636 –> 00:48:57,676

And talking about listening, I’m going to give you other examples.

 

648

00:48:57,676 –> 00:49:00,956

You know, the defensive listening, it’s one of the most common one.

 

649

00:49:01,596 –> 00:49:07,676

So imagine you have a friend, he comes, Jeff, you can imagine, I just had an amazing trip with my family.

 

650

00:49:08,076 –> 00:49:13,996

I would like to share with you, Jeff, it doesn’t really matter what we think about where he went.

 

651

00:49:14,556 –> 00:49:16,716

He’s just trying to tell the story for us.

 

652

00:49:17,436 –> 00:49:17,756

Right.

 

653

00:49:18,076 –> 00:49:20,796

So if he says, well, I went to Brazil.

 

654

00:49:21,036 –> 00:49:21,516

Okay.

 

655

00:49:21,796 –> 00:49:26,076

And he said, and then you said, but Brazil, why did you go to Brazil?

 

656

00:49:26,956 –> 00:49:31,516

So my question is, do you think you’re going to engage with your friend in this conversation?

 

657

00:49:31,596 –> 00:49:33,756

Is there empathy from your side?

 

658

00:49:33,876 –> 00:49:34,636

Of course not.

 

659

00:49:35,436 –> 00:49:36,716

So there’s no communication.

 

660

00:49:37,036 –> 00:49:40,076

So this is one thing that we, we teach them in the training program.

 

661

00:49:40,316 –> 00:49:41,356

Another example.

 

662

00:49:41,916 –> 00:49:42,956

The fake listening.

 

663

00:49:43,436 –> 00:49:44,236

This is amazing.

 

664

00:49:44,396 –> 00:49:46,636

A fake listening is different than defensive listening?

 

665

00:49:46,716 –> 00:49:47,356

This is when…

 

666

00:49:48,036 –> 00:49:48,396

Okay.

 

667

00:49:49,116 –> 00:49:49,756

Oh, yes.

 

668

00:49:49,756 –> 00:49:54,236

The fake listen is when you don’t care at all about what the person is saying.

 

669

00:49:54,636 –> 00:49:57,356

You’re just like giving this attitude, you know?

 

670

00:49:57,516 –> 00:49:57,876

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

671

00:49:57,876 –> 00:49:58,236

Oh, yeah.

 

672

00:49:59,756 –> 00:50:03,516

And then the people are saying, Hey, okay, let me get my cell phone here.

 

673

00:50:03,676 –> 00:50:04,236

Hold on, Jeff.

 

674

00:50:04,476 –> 00:50:04,756

All right.

 

675

00:50:04,996 –> 00:50:05,916

And then I come back here.

 

676

00:50:06,076 –> 00:50:07,036

Could you repeat, please?

 

677

00:50:07,236 –> 00:50:09,556

I just lost my mind here for a while.

 

678

00:50:09,916 –> 00:50:11,436

Okay, this is the fake listen.

 

679

00:50:11,836 –> 00:50:16,876

And then we have another one, which is very interesting, which is the selective listening.

 

680

00:50:16,876 –> 00:50:20,316

So whenever matters to me, I’m paying attention.

 

681

00:50:21,836 –> 00:50:26,316

When I don’t care anymore, I just put the fake listening in place.

 

682

00:50:26,796 –> 00:50:27,116

Okay.

 

683

00:50:27,196 –> 00:50:31,276

So these are the problems companies face in the business environment.

 

684

00:50:32,476 –> 00:50:32,796

Okay.

 

685

00:50:33,276 –> 00:50:39,116

So this is another way to teach them emotional intelligence in one of our training.

 

686

00:50:39,756 –> 00:51:06,876

we we share with them like a test that they find out their personality this is amazing okay is it like the big five type of personality the big the big nine the nine the big nine the Enneagram the Enneagram I don’t know if you heard about the Enneagram yeah I did a certification program in Brazil it’s amazing okay you can you can see out of nine

 

687

00:51:07,516 –> 00:51:07,916

Okay.

 

688

00:51:07,916 –> 00:51:09,596

Nine dimensions of personality.

 

689

00:51:10,036 –> 00:51:13,836

And then people get, yes, yes, yes.

 

690

00:51:14,116 –> 00:51:22,796

And then you, you put these people in a group of people and they discuss their personality and they say, well, oh my gosh, I never thought about that.

 

691

00:51:22,876 –> 00:51:26,956

You know, I didn’t know that I had all these things going on inside me.

 

692

00:51:27,356 –> 00:51:32,876

So then we put like different personalities to talk about and see how different they are.

 

693

00:51:33,556 –> 00:51:38,156

And doesn’t mean they don’t like each other, doesn’t mean that one is right, the other one is wrong.

 

694

00:51:38,396 –> 00:51:39,396

They’re just different.

 

695

00:51:40,076 –> 00:51:45,276

So by just teaching them basic skills in self-awareness, okay?

 

696

00:51:45,276 –> 00:51:49,116

And for instance, about self-awareness, everybody has conflicts.

 

697

00:51:49,756 –> 00:51:51,836

Everybody suffers, okay?

 

698

00:51:52,076 –> 00:51:56,196

Everybody has difficulties in overcoming problems.

 

699

00:51:56,236 –> 00:51:58,476

Everybody has challenges in life.

 

700

00:51:59,516 –> 00:51:59,916

Okay?

 

701

00:51:59,916 –> 00:52:03,356

Everybody goes through difficult times.

 

702

00:52:04,196 –> 00:52:13,396

When you show them these very simple skills and learning, they end up realizing that they’re not a problem.

 

703

00:52:13,836 –> 00:52:18,796

They’re just simple and normal people that need to invest in their self-awareness.

 

704

00:52:18,876 –> 00:52:19,196

Yeah.

 

705

00:52:20,236 –> 00:52:20,636

Okay.

 

706

00:52:20,836 –> 00:52:27,556

I’m not going to press a button and say, all right, so after my training program, everybody’s going to be ready for life.

 

707

00:52:27,996 –> 00:52:30,236

Everybody’s going to be connected to self-awareness.

 

708

00:52:30,556 –> 00:52:31,676

No, no.

 

709

00:52:32,116 –> 00:52:33,676

I’m giving the starting point.

 

710

00:52:34,156 –> 00:52:34,716

Okay.

 

711

00:52:34,796 –> 00:52:39,116

And I’m giving like the basic tools to for a big step.

 

712

00:52:39,116 –> 00:52:41,276

That’s an interesting way of looking at it.

 

713

00:52:41,436 –> 00:52:45,436

Like it’s almost like you’re starting them on that journey.

 

714

00:52:45,916 –> 00:52:49,436

You’re showing them a path and taking them one or two steps down the path.

 

715

00:52:49,996 –> 00:52:54,556

and then saying, well, this is the path you should go down.

 

716

00:52:54,876 –> 00:52:56,316

And some will and some won’t.

 

717

00:52:56,436 –> 00:53:03,196

And that’s how you’re able to be effective in that you’re not sitting there going, okay, you went through this program.

 

718

00:53:03,196 –> 00:53:07,916

Now you’re a, you know, a master at conflict resolution.

 

719

00:53:07,916 –> 00:53:11,996

It’s like, well, no, really, you got to build these soft skills.

 

720

00:53:12,636 –> 00:53:13,676

I can help you.

 

721

00:53:13,756 –> 00:53:15,676

I can show you the path for these soft skills.

 

722

00:53:15,676 –> 00:53:17,276

I can take you down

 

723

00:53:17,995 –> 00:53:25,675

a couple of steps down the path, like with the act of listening, but then here’s the path and you need to continue down that path.

 

724

00:53:26,315 –> 00:53:27,195

Hey, quick question.

 

725

00:53:27,275 –> 00:53:29,835

You said the, so what was the personality thing?

 

726

00:53:30,235 –> 00:53:35,995

Because I thought I took a personality assessment on the big five.

 

727

00:53:36,955 –> 00:53:38,875

And oh, my God, was it spot on?

 

728

00:53:38,875 –> 00:53:39,075

Right.

 

729

00:53:39,075 –> 00:53:47,515

And when I learned more, like, then my wife was a psychologist, so that’s my, but, but man, it was so spot on.

 

730

00:53:47,595 –> 00:53:56,075

And what was interesting is not only did I learn more about myself, but I was like, you know, I’m 40th percentile in this dimension.

 

731

00:53:57,355 –> 00:54:04,875

and 99 on this other dimension, and therefore I behave like, my default setting is to behave like this.

 

732

00:54:05,355 –> 00:54:07,035

But it was also the realization.

 

733

00:54:07,515 –> 00:54:10,315

So I was like, I got a lot of self-awareness out of it.

 

734

00:54:10,955 –> 00:54:19,635

But the other thing was the realization, well, I’m in the 90th percentile of this, which means nine out of 10 people aren’t.

 

735

00:54:20,715 –> 00:54:20,875

Yeah.

 

736

00:54:21,075 –> 00:54:29,275

Like, and, and therefore they’re, depending where they’re at on that one, they, they will react differently and behave differently.

 

737

00:54:29,595 –> 00:54:32,675

Their default setting, their default setting is different than mine.

 

738

00:54:33,515 –> 00:54:37,195

And like, so it was, it was really interesting.

 

739

00:54:37,195 –> 00:54:38,955

So you, and you said the big nine.

 

740

00:54:39,435 –> 00:54:41,595

So again, not a psychologist, but yeah.

 

741

00:54:42,235 –> 00:54:42,475

Yes.

 

742

00:54:42,635 –> 00:54:45,755

So, so just, just, just one, one parenthesis here.

 

743

00:54:46,155 –> 00:54:48,475

Think about, about how good

 

744

00:54:49,275 –> 00:54:59,955

How accurate would it be for a company to run the Enneagram test with the employees to get to know which one would be the best position?

 

745

00:55:00,155 –> 00:55:02,155

task for that particular person.

 

746

00:55:03,115 –> 00:55:04,555

So let me show you here.

 

747

00:55:04,795 –> 00:55:08,075

This is not the best way to show, but I think you can see, right?

 

748

00:55:10,155 –> 00:55:11,835

These are, I’m going to read it to you.

 

749

00:55:11,995 –> 00:55:13,235

Hold that up so I can write that down.

 

750

00:55:13,235 –> 00:55:15,275

What’s the an anagram?

 

751

00:55:15,435 –> 00:55:15,835

Got it.

 

752

00:55:16,675 –> 00:55:16,955

Okay.

 

753

00:55:17,555 –> 00:55:17,835

Yeah.

 

754

00:55:17,915 –> 00:55:18,955

I can send to you.

 

755

00:55:19,115 –> 00:55:20,555

Yeah, I sent to you later.

 

756

00:55:20,875 –> 00:55:26,155

You know, just to give an example, on the Enneagram, okay, we have

 

757

00:55:26,715 –> 00:55:27,515

The basics.

 

758

00:55:27,595 –> 00:55:33,435

We can have 27 and 54 personalities, but I would stick with nine because I think it’s enough.

 

759

00:55:33,675 –> 00:55:35,035

We don’t need to go deeper than that.

 

760

00:55:35,115 –> 00:55:35,515

Okay.

 

761

00:55:35,995 –> 00:55:39,515

So number one, the perfectionist and the critical.

 

762

00:55:40,795 –> 00:55:43,435

Number two, the friendly and proud.

 

763

00:55:44,715 –> 00:55:47,515

Third, adaptable and the vain.

 

764

00:55:48,715 –> 00:55:51,595

Four, intense and emotional.

 

765

00:55:53,115 –> 00:55:56,315

Five, private and quiet specialist.

 

766

00:55:56,955 –> 00:56:01,115

I would say that these are the people who normally talk to themselves.

 

767

00:56:01,435 –> 00:56:02,235

The number five.

 

768

00:56:03,355 –> 00:56:05,835

Number six, cautious or skeptic.

 

769

00:56:05,995 –> 00:56:08,795

Seven, enthusiasts and visionary.

 

770

00:56:09,915 –> 00:56:12,795

Number eight, challenger and controller.

 

771

00:56:13,515 –> 00:56:16,715

And number nine, peacemaker and complacent.

 

772

00:56:17,835 –> 00:56:19,515

Okay, so look at this.

 

773

00:56:19,515 –> 00:56:22,235

Imagine when you are building your team.

 

774

00:56:23,275 –> 00:56:28,635

Okay, so you are selecting people who are going to be out there selling products on the street.

 

775

00:56:30,235 –> 00:56:35,155

Do you think the private and the quiet specialist will be the right fit?

 

776

00:56:37,475 –> 00:56:38,155

Of course not.

 

777

00:56:38,235 –> 00:56:49,755

However, if you have to run a deep research about a product to get as much information as you need to develop a product, this person will be the ideal.

 

778

00:56:51,195 –> 00:56:54,395

will be the perfect fit for the position, right?

 

779

00:56:54,555 –> 00:57:03,915

So, when you talk to a group of people in a company, in a department, and you run this test, and I can share with you, okay?

 

780

00:57:04,315 –> 00:57:11,835

Later on, we can take the test, and you see, well, I can see why I don’t get along very well with that person.

 

781

00:57:14,235 –> 00:57:15,995

Because he’s totally different.

 

782

00:57:15,995 –> 00:57:34,635

So basically, and then trying to answer your question in the best way as possible by bringing some seeds, some basic concepts, but very powerful concepts, and making those people, you know, taking dynamics during the program.

 

783

00:57:34,955 –> 00:57:42,875

For instance, the first question, one of the first questions I ask is, how many of you

 

784

00:57:43,675 –> 00:57:48,955

feel that you’re connected with self-awareness and everybody raise their hands.

 

785

00:57:49,995 –> 00:57:50,555

Okay.

 

786

00:57:51,355 –> 00:57:51,835

That’s fine.

 

787

00:57:51,995 –> 00:57:52,955

I don’t challenge that.

 

788

00:57:53,035 –> 00:57:55,115

I just let that the way it is.

 

789

00:57:55,115 –> 00:57:58,075

So they will feel during the program that this is not true.

 

790

00:57:58,235 –> 00:58:06,715

So the first dynamic that we have, for instance, in the program, turning conflicts into opportunities.

 

791

00:58:07,355 –> 00:58:12,155

This is this, this is self-awareness training program is the name of the dynamics

 

792

00:58:12,795 –> 00:58:19,835

The dynamic is first step towards the self-knowledge or the self-awareness.

 

793

00:58:21,355 –> 00:58:23,995

Most of them cannot answer the questions.

 

794

00:58:26,235 –> 00:58:36,795

So I go and say, you see, most of you thought that you were connected to yourself, to yourself, you know, with your inner.

 

795

00:58:37,915 –> 00:58:41,915

As you can see here, by just answering simple questions,

 

796

00:58:43,595 –> 00:58:45,515

you realize that you’re not connected.

 

797

00:58:47,195 –> 00:58:53,435

So by not being connected to yourself, how can you be ready to the task?

 

798

00:58:53,835 –> 00:58:57,995

How can you be ready to face conflicts in a daily basis?

 

799

00:58:59,115 –> 00:59:04,395

How can you be ready not to judge your colleague, not to judge your wife, your business partner, whatever?

 

800

00:59:05,515 –> 00:59:11,835

Okay, so this is like we have one program called Navigating Life Conflicts.

 

801

00:59:12,475 –> 00:59:16,155

Okay, let me just talk to you a little bit about the programs very quickly.

 

802

00:59:16,635 –> 00:59:20,955

The first one is turning all things into opportunities.

 

803

00:59:21,515 –> 00:59:27,915

This is a very great experience and deep experience in self-awareness.

 

804

00:59:28,475 –> 00:59:33,915

In this program, we teach self-awareness and we run the test of the personalities.

 

805

00:59:34,715 –> 00:59:39,915

Okay, and at the end, we have a surprise, a big surprise for the group in terms of empathy.

 

806

00:59:40,315 –> 00:59:43,675

So they can learn empathy not to judge others anymore.

 

807

00:59:44,075 –> 00:59:50,395

And I can tell you, you know, it’s a very beautiful ending, you know, step of the program.

 

808

00:59:50,715 –> 00:59:55,355

And people sometimes live totally transformed in terms of empathy.

 

809

00:59:55,675 –> 00:59:56,075

Okay.

 

810

00:59:56,115 –> 00:59:57,195

And so this is one program.

 

811

00:59:57,315 –> 01:00:00,235

The other one is the navigating life conflicts.

 

812

01:00:00,635 –> 01:00:04,235

This is probably the most complete program we have.

 

813

01:00:04,635 –> 01:00:07,675

And this includes the turning conflicts into opportunities.

 

814

01:00:07,915 –> 01:00:08,395

Okay?

 

815

01:00:08,715 –> 01:00:12,875

Plus, we have internal and external conflicts.

 

816

01:00:13,275 –> 01:00:18,795

We do have personalities, we have expectations, and we have communication tools.

 

817

01:00:19,755 –> 01:00:26,875

This is the program we use to certify conflict managers, the navigating life conflicts.

 

818

01:00:27,035 –> 01:00:27,435

Okay?

 

819

01:00:27,755 –> 01:00:33,995

So people learn the self-awareness, people connect to emotional intelligence, and they also

 

820

01:00:34,555 –> 01:00:43,715

take home like knowledge to start developing their skills of self, self no, I’m sorry, of conflict management.

 

821

01:00:44,235 –> 01:00:47,355

There is another one called mastering negotiation.

 

822

01:00:48,075 –> 01:00:51,795

So we teach people how to plan and how to negotiate.

 

823

01:00:52,795 –> 01:00:53,195

Okay.

 

824

01:00:53,355 –> 01:00:57,115

Not only like if you’re buying something, negotiate in life.

 

825

01:00:57,875 –> 01:00:58,475

I’m going to.

 

826

01:00:59,035 –> 01:00:59,835

Talk to my boss.

 

827

01:00:59,835 –> 01:01:00,955

I’m going to talk to my wife.

 

828

01:01:00,955 –> 01:01:02,715

I’m going to talk to my kids, whatever.

 

829

01:01:03,035 –> 01:01:03,275

Yep.

 

830

01:01:03,515 –> 01:01:04,595

This is all negotiation.

 

831

01:01:05,035 –> 01:01:06,875

So we teach people how to negotiate better.

 

832

01:01:07,275 –> 01:01:15,195

And the last one, but not less important, and in fact, this is one of my favorite, is the rewriting the script of your life.

 

833

01:01:16,635 –> 01:01:20,995

This is, for me, is the most powerful training you have.

 

834

01:01:20,995 –> 01:01:23,035

Wait for you to set easy goals.

 

835

01:01:25,755 –> 01:01:31,035

You know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a pretty big goal right there.

 

836

01:01:31,355 –> 01:01:32,235

That’s very cool.

 

837

01:01:32,315 –> 01:01:33,195

That’s very cool.

 

838

01:01:33,995 –> 01:01:35,515

So tell me more about that one.

 

839

01:01:35,915 –> 01:01:37,835

That sounds really interesting.

 

840

01:01:38,715 –> 01:01:43,355

Yeah, this is my, this is, I don’t want to just say that the other ones are not important, please.

 

841

01:01:43,675 –> 01:01:45,755

But this one, this one here is my favorite.

 

842

01:01:45,915 –> 01:01:46,475

Okay.

 

843

01:01:46,475 –> 01:01:48,355

And because this is about

 

844

01:01:49,115 –> 01:02:02,395

understanding the power, the ideal, in my opinion, would be taking the turning conflicts into opportunities or the navigating life conflicts and then go to rewriting the script of your lives, of your life.

 

845

01:02:02,395 –> 01:02:02,755

Sorry.

 

846

01:02:03,515 –> 01:02:12,155

And this, this program is about truly understanding the power of self-awareness.

 

847

01:02:12,875 –> 01:02:13,355

Okay.

 

848

01:02:14,555 –> 01:02:17,115

This is the right fit for those

 

849

01:02:17,835 –> 01:02:22,555

who wants to understand why their life is not moving forward.

 

850

01:02:23,355 –> 01:02:25,115

Why we are suffering for.

 

851

01:02:25,515 –> 01:02:25,995

Why?

 

852

01:02:26,075 –> 01:02:33,275

Some people, they just, or most of the people better say, they suffer for generic things.

 

853

01:02:33,275 –> 01:02:35,835

They don’t know exactly why they’re suffering.

 

854

01:02:36,475 –> 01:02:37,995

Where is the actual problem?

 

855

01:02:38,555 –> 01:02:43,515

So this program helps people understand where is the actual problem.

 

856

01:02:44,915 –> 01:02:46,075

and where they want to be.

 

857

01:02:46,315 –> 01:02:53,195

So tell me, okay, we understood where is your problem, your pain, your fears.

 

858

01:02:53,435 –> 01:02:54,755

So where do you want to get?

 

859

01:02:55,275 –> 01:02:58,235

Okay, tell me what happiness is for you.

 

860

01:02:59,115 –> 01:03:00,115

What do you need to see?

 

861

01:03:00,115 –> 01:03:04,315

What do you need to hear in the future to feel better than you’re right right now?

 

862

01:03:05,275 –> 01:03:06,875

So we help people understand that.

 

863

01:03:07,275 –> 01:03:13,675

And then we draw together an action plan to help the person achieve their goals.

 

864

01:03:14,395 –> 01:03:16,555

to help people achieve their goals.

 

865

01:03:16,875 –> 01:03:31,115

So self-awareness, we understand the problem, not generic problem, we go deep into the problems, and then we understand where do they want to get, what are their goals in life, and then we help them to build an action plan.

 

866

01:03:31,835 –> 01:03:43,915

And all this, we use the human needs, the six human needs, okay, which is comfort, uncertainty, uncertainty, and variety,

 

867

01:03:44,875 –> 01:03:51,355

love and connection, significance and importance, recognition, growth and contribution.

 

868

01:03:51,995 –> 01:03:57,115

So we use these skills to help people overcome their difficulties.

 

869

01:03:57,435 –> 01:04:12,635

So this is like amazing when you want to fix relationships, doesn’t matter what kind of relationships, or when you want to have an action plan for your life to achieve your goals.

 

870

01:04:13,115 –> 01:04:17,915

So this is like a beautiful program in my opinion, you know, and that’s why I love so much.

 

871

01:04:17,915 –> 01:04:20,155

But I mean, all of them are important.

 

872

01:04:20,715 –> 01:04:22,075

Well, they’re building blocks.

 

873

01:04:22,075 –> 01:04:34,795

And it’s interesting because they kind of, as you were going through them, they kind of go from the, I don’t want to say the tactical, but the, you know, I mean, rewriting the script to your life, that’s really deep.

 

874

01:04:35,755 –> 01:04:39,515

Like that’s like, yeah, I guess that’s maybe they go from kind of.

 

875

01:04:39,835 –> 01:04:40,155

Yes.

 

876

01:04:40,835 –> 01:04:44,595

a certain level of depth down to like really, really deep.

 

877

01:04:44,595 –> 01:04:45,835

And that’s very cool.

 

878

01:04:46,715 –> 01:04:49,595

Yes, but you can also write small scripts.

 

879

01:04:49,595 –> 01:04:51,675

You can also write small scripts.

 

880

01:04:52,195 –> 01:04:58,315

Our life is made by long movies, the actual movie or short movies, right?

 

881

01:04:58,475 –> 01:05:03,995

If you’re going to take a trip with your wife, for instance, you have to align expectations.

 

882

01:05:04,355 –> 01:05:05,915

What are you expecting from this trip?

 

883

01:05:06,395 –> 01:05:07,715

Do you want to go to museums?

 

884

01:05:07,715 –> 01:05:09,354

Do you want to go in sports activity?

 

885

01:05:09,594 –> 01:05:11,314

Do you want to sleep until late?

 

886

01:05:11,354 –> 01:05:12,394

You want to wake up early?

 

887

01:05:12,634 –> 01:05:18,954

If you want to align expectations in your short movie, the trip might not be as good as could be.

 

888

01:05:20,954 –> 01:05:25,754

So basically what we do, we help people rewrite their script.

 

889

01:05:25,994 –> 01:05:30,474

Could be a lifetime, could be a short script, you know.

 

890

01:05:31,274 –> 01:05:32,194

Yeah, I have an example.

 

891

01:05:32,194 –> 01:05:36,554

Do you want a very funny, not funny, okay, but it’s funny, but it’s a real example.

 

892

01:05:36,554 –> 01:05:46,154

I used to work with this couple back in Brazil and they called me one day and said, Ruben said, because the script of our lives can be also a consultant service, not only a training.

 

893

01:05:46,394 –> 01:05:46,794

Okay.

 

894

01:05:47,194 –> 01:05:53,594

And he said, look, we are willing to take the script of our lives consulting, not training.

 

895

01:05:53,594 –> 01:05:56,314

And, but we decided to take a trip before that.

 

896

01:05:56,554 –> 01:05:58,834

I think we’re going to travel together.

 

897

01:05:58,834 –> 01:05:59,954

We’re going to go to the Maldives.

 

898

01:06:00,594 –> 01:06:11,354

which is a paradise, and I think we’re going to engage in some, you know, good talk, good experience, and we’re going to heal most of our problems in that trap, okay?

 

899

01:06:11,594 –> 01:06:12,394

Okay, fine.

 

900

01:06:13,154 –> 01:06:17,354

I mean, I’m going to be here cheering for you guys, you know, hopefully you guys have fun.

 

901

01:06:17,674 –> 01:06:18,634

It’s a beautiful place.

 

902

01:06:18,634 –> 01:06:24,874

I’ve never been there, but I’ve seen pictures and seems to be that is the right place to fix relationships, right?

 

903

01:06:24,874 –> 01:06:31,274

So from Brazil, and I think from US as well, would take probably two days to get there, right?

 

904

01:06:31,274 –> 01:06:37,434

Because you have to connect flights and it’s very far away, maybe 18 hours of traveling.

 

905

01:06:37,434 –> 01:06:40,154

Indian Ocean or the South Pacific, the Maldives?

 

906

01:06:41,834 –> 01:06:41,994

Yeah.

 

907

01:06:42,314 –> 01:06:43,314

South Pacific, okay.

 

908

01:06:43,314 –> 01:06:44,874

I think it’s South Pacific.

 

909

01:06:45,034 –> 01:06:46,474

Yeah, that’s a ways off.

 

910

01:06:46,714 –> 01:06:47,834

The Maldives Islands.

 

911

01:06:49,114 –> 01:06:49,594

I think so.

 

912

01:06:49,754 –> 01:06:50,554

Side of the planet.

 

913

01:06:50,634 –> 01:06:51,674

It’s around there.

 

914

01:06:51,674 –> 01:06:52,234

From us.

 

915

01:06:52,394 –> 01:06:53,194

It’s very far.

 

916

01:06:53,554 –> 01:06:53,674

Yeah.

 

917

01:06:53,914 –> 01:06:54,554

It’s far away.

 

918

01:06:54,554 –> 01:06:55,594

It’s far away from us.

 

919

01:06:55,594 –> 01:06:59,194

So let’s say that it takes approximately two days to get there.

 

920

01:06:59,274 –> 01:07:05,834

After, so I was like, I wasn’t following the trip, but it was like putting my best energy to…

 

921

01:07:06,874 –> 01:07:13,034

You know, Kat, good news from this couple, beautiful couple, and that things were working well in that trip, right?

 

922

01:07:13,434 –> 01:07:19,194

So after three or four days after the departing date, they were back in Brazil.

 

923

01:07:19,394 –> 01:07:21,434

And it takes like, it takes like two days to get there.

 

924

01:07:21,834 –> 01:07:29,274

The plan, Jeff, the plan was 13 days trip, 13 day trip.

 

925

01:07:29,354 –> 01:07:34,554

After three or four days, they were back in Brazil and the guy called me.

 

926

01:07:35,274 –> 01:07:38,474

Oh no, Rubens, I don’t think I’m not going to take the program anymore.

 

927

01:07:38,954 –> 01:07:40,474

This is not for me.

 

928

01:07:40,474 –> 01:07:44,074

I just realized that we are not supposed to be together anymore.

 

929

01:07:44,554 –> 01:07:46,154

And I said, Okay, but tell me, what happened?

 

930

01:07:46,154 –> 01:07:47,114

Give me some examples.

 

931

01:07:47,114 –> 01:07:48,634

Let me understand what happened, right?

 

932

01:07:49,034 –> 01:07:57,514

So the first day, I tried to woke her up, and she didn’t.

 

933

01:07:58,154 –> 01:08:03,274

She wasn’t bad, and I had rent a jet ski to drive around the islands.

 

934

01:08:04,474 –> 01:08:04,794

Okay.

 

935

01:08:04,794 –> 01:08:05,914

So I had to go by myself.

 

936

01:08:07,114 –> 01:08:12,394

When I got back to the room, I said, I have a reservation for snorkeling.

 

937

01:08:13,594 –> 01:08:14,074

Okay.

 

938

01:08:14,394 –> 01:08:15,034

Right, right.

 

939

01:08:15,514 –> 01:08:17,113

On this particular beach.

 

940

01:08:17,674 –> 01:08:19,754

And she, she gave me a mad face.

 

941

01:08:19,754 –> 01:08:20,554

She didn’t want to go.

 

942

01:08:20,554 –> 01:08:21,674

She was in a bad mood.

 

943

01:08:22,073 –> 01:08:23,913

And I ended up going by myself.

 

944

01:08:24,794 –> 01:08:25,274

Okay.

 

945

01:08:25,674 –> 01:08:29,913

And then when I got back from snorkeling, I invited her to go cycling on the beach.

 

946

01:08:30,834 –> 01:08:32,314

And she didn’t want to talk to me anymore.

 

947

01:08:33,033 –> 01:08:33,554

And that’s it.

 

948

01:08:33,834 –> 01:08:34,874

I said, it’s done.

 

949

01:08:35,394 –> 01:08:37,993

I’m not going to spend one more day in this place with this lady.

 

950

01:08:38,474 –> 01:08:41,113

And then I had the opportunity to talk to the lady.

 

951

01:08:41,514 –> 01:08:42,554

And I said, what’s going on?

 

952

01:08:43,033 –> 01:08:56,634

And she said, Rubens, the first day, the first day of our trip, I would love to have breakfast in our bed, to chat, to stay together, to talk.

 

953

01:08:57,274 –> 01:09:06,714

And when I woke up, the guy was in a jet ski, crossing to one side to the other one, and he didn’t even invite me to go.

 

954

01:09:09,354 –> 01:09:10,073

And you know what?

 

955

01:09:10,314 –> 01:09:11,314

It gets worse.

 

956

01:09:11,314 –> 01:09:16,554

When he got back from the jet ski, and then I told myself, well, now it’s going to be our moment.

 

957

01:09:16,794 –> 01:09:17,913

He’s going to surprise me.

 

958

01:09:17,913 –> 01:09:18,953

He’s going to be here.

 

959

01:09:19,194 –> 01:09:20,794

We are going to make love, whatever.

 

960

01:09:20,794 –> 01:09:25,834

No, he came and said, we got to go because we have to go to the snorkeling tour.

 

961

01:09:27,754 –> 01:09:35,113

So I said, are you guys, are you here to spend time in the island or to fix our relationship?

 

962

01:09:36,794 –> 01:09:46,234

So, I mean, long story short, can you see how important it is to align expectation?

 

963

01:09:47,113 –> 01:09:50,754

All of, both of them were there to fix the relationship.

 

964

01:09:51,913 –> 01:09:53,913

The guy, a sports guy,

 

965

01:09:54,474 –> 01:09:56,314

wanted to have fun with the lady.

 

966

01:09:56,874 –> 01:10:01,914

The lady wanted to spend time, romance, whatever, with the husband.

 

967

01:10:02,794 –> 01:10:07,914

Different personality, different viewpoints about the world, about the trip.

 

968

01:10:08,314 –> 01:10:08,874

They fought.

 

969

01:10:09,514 –> 01:10:10,634

They ended up coming back.

 

970

01:10:11,434 –> 01:10:13,754

So this is all about the script of our lives.

 

971

01:10:14,754 –> 01:10:22,954

align expectations, understand the character of your movie, and understand if the character is ready for the role.

 

972

01:10:23,594 –> 01:10:24,154

Interesting.

 

973

01:10:24,154 –> 01:10:28,234

So that’s interesting.

 

974

01:10:29,354 –> 01:10:37,674

So the net, so, so what, shifting gears a little, so you’re doing, you set all this up in, in Brazil, in Sao Paulo, so lovely city.

 

975

01:10:37,674 –> 01:10:39,674

My sister was there for a couple of years.

 

976

01:10:39,674 –> 01:10:40,714

She loved it down there.

 

977

01:10:42,834 –> 01:10:45,434

What precipitated the move to Miami?

 

978

01:10:45,434 –> 01:10:47,754

Okay, that’s an interesting question.

 

979

01:10:47,754 –> 01:10:51,354

You know, Miami, let me go way, way back a little bit.

 

980

01:10:51,514 –> 01:10:54,474

I used to live in Miami back in 2000 and 2001.

 

981

01:10:54,954 –> 01:10:56,394

I came here by myself.

 

982

01:10:56,634 –> 01:10:59,114

You know, I used to work for a law firm here in Miami.

 

983

01:11:00,074 –> 01:11:05,434

It was a great experience for me, you know, and I have always loved the United States.

 

984

01:11:05,834 –> 01:11:09,514

You know, I always felt connected with the American people.

 

985

01:11:09,994 –> 01:11:11,754

I love the values I love.

 

986

01:11:12,314 –> 01:11:17,034

I’ve been to the United States since I was a child, you know, since I was six years old.

 

987

01:11:17,034 –> 01:11:18,154

I’m 46 now.

 

988

01:11:18,554 –> 01:11:24,794

So probably I wouldn’t say every year, but almost every year I was here in the United States because this is a place that I love.

 

989

01:11:25,674 –> 01:11:29,274

And my wife and I decided to bring the kids.

 

990

01:11:29,274 –> 01:11:34,794

I have one son, seven years old, and my daughter is turning three in a couple of weeks.

 

991

01:11:35,394 –> 01:11:43,434

And we decided to bring them to give them, you know, a different experience, to give them a different education.

 

992

01:11:43,434 –> 01:11:44,794

Brazil is an amazing country.

 

993

01:11:44,794 –> 01:11:47,594

Sao Paulo, absolutely a lovely place.

 

994

01:11:47,674 –> 01:11:54,074

But we felt that that was the moment to take this step and bring this experience to our family.

 

995

01:11:54,074 –> 01:11:58,394

So now I’m back in Miami after one year and a half with all the family.

 

996

01:11:59,114 –> 01:12:00,954

Hey, dog’s part of the family, you’ve got to come.

 

997

01:12:01,674 –> 01:12:01,994

Yes.

 

998

01:12:02,074 –> 01:12:04,514

And we are happy, you know, seeing my kids.

 

999

01:12:04,714 –> 01:12:05,234

It’s funny because

 

1000

01:12:05,314 –> 01:12:08,874

Because my little one, her first language is Spanish.

 

1001

01:12:08,874 –> 01:12:09,674

Can you imagine that?

 

1002

01:12:10,394 –> 01:12:12,874

Because she learns from the nanny and from her school.

 

1003

01:12:13,034 –> 01:12:17,194

And the Portuguese became the second language and English the third one.

 

1004

01:12:17,594 –> 01:12:21,034

So it’s an interesting thing to see, you know, all these things.

 

1005

01:12:21,434 –> 01:12:47,114

my boy speaking Portuguese and English fluently I get very proud of and I think it’s a great experience you know and unfortunately nowadays we are facing some some security problems in Sao Paulo you know and this is making me feel very sad and but this is also one of the reasons too you know we want to spend some time here in this great country you know and

 

1006

01:12:47,594 –> 01:12:48,314

We are very happy.

 

1007

01:12:48,314 –> 01:12:57,034

And I think in terms of Virtus, I think the Virtus approach, it’s a perfect fit for the United States.

 

1008

01:12:57,034 –> 01:13:01,754

You know, I think people here, they need as much as the people in Brazil.

 

1009

01:13:04,714 –> 01:13:06,794

And I think it’s going to be a great challenge for me.

 

1010

01:13:06,794 –> 01:13:10,874

You know, it’s not easy when you do like international expansion.

 

1011

01:13:11,834 –> 01:13:15,754

I’ve been challenged, I’ve been challenged myself a lot.

 

1012

01:13:16,394 –> 01:13:22,274

because when you have a lot of recognition in Brazil, your numbers are amazing.

 

1013

01:13:22,274 –> 01:13:34,554

You know, I settled more than 70,000 cases and then you just land here in Miami and you start from scratch and you have like opportunities as you gave to me here to be here today.

 

1014

01:13:35,154 –> 01:13:39,314

I’m very thankful and it’s just like another challenge, a lot of challenges.

 

1015

01:13:39,314 –> 01:13:40,154

I’m ready for that.

 

1016

01:13:40,674 –> 01:13:42,234

I think the product is amazing.

 

1017

01:13:42,474 –> 01:13:46,274

It’s life changing how people, I feel so good by doing that.

 

1018

01:13:46,594 –> 01:13:59,634

Yeah, well, it’s been testament to you and your fortitude because there’s not a lot of people that would leave a comfortable situation with a, you know, build up a business.

 

1019

01:13:59,634 –> 01:14:04,554

I mean, I know how hard it is to build a business and then go, hey, I got a really good idea.

 

1020

01:14:04,714 –> 01:14:05,274

Oh, yes.

 

1021

01:14:05,754 –> 01:14:11,034

I’m going to move to a different country to pioneer our international expansion.

 

1022

01:14:11,754 –> 01:14:14,714

Like usually it’s like more like, no, I got a great idea.

 

1023

01:14:14,794 –> 01:14:18,354

You move to a different country and buy your international extension.

 

1024

01:14:18,554 –> 01:14:20,234

That’s how most owners would behave.

 

1025

01:14:20,834 –> 01:14:32,314

But for you to do that, I think it’s a testament to your fortitude and that we’re coming up on some time here, you know, kind of shifting gears a little.

 

1026

01:14:32,794 –> 01:14:37,834

Outside of a professional, just what do you like to learn about?

 

1027

01:14:37,874 –> 01:14:39,514

What piques your curiosity?

 

1028

01:14:40,154 –> 01:14:50,074

You know, I’m a very curious guy myself, you know, like, like, I’m a history kind of guy, which I was never a history guy as a younger, you know, in school.

 

1029

01:14:50,234 –> 01:14:59,274

But, you know, but over the years, I, I just find it really fascinating to learn about because it

 

1030

01:15:00,234 –> 01:15:03,754

It tells the story of how we got where we are today, right?

 

1031

01:15:03,754 –> 01:15:05,834

Like, why is the world the way it is today?

 

1032

01:15:05,874 –> 01:15:07,274

And that’s history.

 

1033

01:15:07,594 –> 01:15:09,034

So I find that pretty fascinating.

 

1034

01:15:09,434 –> 01:15:10,954

But that’s me.

 

1035

01:15:10,954 –> 01:15:11,914

It’s a great, great point.

 

1036

01:15:11,914 –> 01:15:12,954

We got weird interest.

 

1037

01:15:12,954 –> 01:15:13,274

Yeah.

 

1038

01:15:17,034 –> 01:15:20,754

Yeah, let me tell, let me tell, no, I think story is amazing.

 

1039

01:15:20,754 –> 01:15:23,914

I mean, let me tell you a little bit about myself.

 

1040

01:15:24,594 –> 01:15:26,874

When I was living in Brazil,

 

1041

01:15:27,514 –> 01:15:31,034

my hobby, you know, the thing I used to do for love.

 

1042

01:15:31,194 –> 01:15:31,914

I love it.

 

1043

01:15:32,394 –> 01:15:35,274

And it was something very, very inspiring for me.

 

1044

01:15:35,434 –> 01:15:37,274

Oh, I noticed that on your profile.

 

1045

01:15:37,274 –> 01:15:38,274

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

1046

01:15:38,394 –> 01:15:39,354

I was always.

 

1047

01:15:39,354 –> 01:15:42,074

Yes, yes.

 

1048

01:15:42,274 –> 01:15:45,434

And by the way, I used to have a go-kart school for kids in Brazil.

 

1049

01:15:45,434 –> 01:15:47,514

It was an amazing program, right?

 

1050

01:15:48,354 –> 01:15:48,594

Uh-huh.

 

1051

01:15:49,354 –> 01:16:18,314

used to race since I was a kid since 11 years old no I even had the opportunity to drive go-karts with Ayrton Senna in the past and some other Formula One drivers uh just for fun of course I used to race professionally you know this was my hobby and the thing I love I’m not doing here in Miami yet you know I know we have a track here nearby Homestead but I haven’t started yet I’m adjusting still in my life here so when did you start when did you start driving

 

1052

01:16:18,474 –> 01:16:19,834

And right now.

 

1053

01:16:21,474 –> 01:16:24,114

I’m like, because I’m thinking of your kids and 11 years old.

 

1054

01:16:24,314 –> 01:16:25,394

Well, there’s the seven-year old.

 

1055

01:16:25,394 –> 01:16:26,394

They’re coming up on that.

 

1056

01:16:26,394 –> 01:16:30,994

I’m going to tell you something.

 

1057

01:16:31,594 –> 01:16:33,714

He started with three and a half years old.

 

1058

01:16:33,714 –> 01:16:36,554

He’s already he’s already gotten the he’s already caught the learning curve there.

 

1059

01:16:38,554 –> 01:16:38,714

Yeah.

 

1060

01:16:40,154 –> 01:16:41,034

And he loved it.

 

1061

01:16:41,034 –> 01:16:46,634

He loved it, you know, but thank God when he got here in Miami, he engaged in soccer.

 

1062

01:16:47,034 –> 01:16:51,354

He loves soccer, and he doesn’t want to go kart anymore.

 

1063

01:16:51,354 –> 01:16:52,314

So I’m happy for that.

 

1064

01:16:52,314 –> 01:16:58,314

You know, it’s less dangerous, it’s cheaper, and you know, and he’s very happy and doing so well in soccer.

 

1065

01:16:58,394 –> 01:16:59,953

And I’m always trying to.

 

1066

01:17:00,073 –> 01:17:04,553

to study and get as much information as I can about the U.S.

 

1067

01:17:04,553 –> 01:17:12,313

politics, you know, because I think it’s a very interesting learning about negotiation and mediation.

 

1068

01:17:12,313 –> 01:17:20,193

Use a little mediation in an international scale.

 

1069

01:17:20,193 –> 01:17:20,473

I agree 100%.

 

1070

01:17:20,473 –> 01:17:21,833

I think mediation.

 

1071

01:17:21,993 –> 01:17:23,073

I wouldn’t say mediation.

 

1072

01:17:23,193 –> 01:17:24,873

I would say conflict.

 

1073

01:17:25,033 –> 01:17:27,833

It’s like understanding the other point of view.

 

1074

01:17:28,313 –> 01:17:28,633

It’s

 

1075

01:17:29,033 –> 01:17:35,033

you know, and not demonizing the other point of view, regardless of what side you’re on, you know, of anything, you know.

 

1076

01:17:36,553 –> 01:17:37,353

Sure, sure.

 

1077

01:17:37,473 –> 01:17:44,633

I think mediation or conflict management would be ideal to solve like politics problems, war problems.

 

1078

01:17:44,633 –> 01:17:55,593

And I mean, it’s just like when you, when you, because think about this, Jeff, when you become a specialist in negotiation, mediation, conflict management, whatever,

 

1079

01:17:56,393 –> 01:17:59,753

It means that you know how to read and understand people.

 

1080

01:18:00,313 –> 01:18:02,953

It’s not about the techniques, okay?

 

1081

01:18:03,193 –> 01:18:10,713

If I teach only techniques, we’re on the hard skill side, right?

 

1082

01:18:10,873 –> 01:18:25,433

So what I stand for, and I always try to show people is if you want to be a good lawyer, if you want to be a good negotiator, mediator, whatever, you have to understand about people.

 

1083

01:18:26,793 –> 01:18:27,273

Okay?

 

1084

01:18:27,513 –> 01:18:32,633

If you don’t understand about people and about yourself, you won’t be able to be a good mediator.

 

1085

01:18:34,313 –> 01:18:34,713

Right?

 

1086

01:18:34,713 –> 01:18:54,153

So when you see like politics, international conflicts, I mean, this is very interesting to me, you know, because sometimes I feel some problems that we just could step in and try to help with a different viewpoint, with a different experience, with a different approach.

 

1087

01:18:54,633 –> 01:19:02,073

Since I think the United States is the country that is an example for the world, in my opinion, it doesn’t matter the politics side.

 

1088

01:19:02,633 –> 01:19:12,033

I think the country has foundations that regardless of who is in charge, the country always stands.

 

1089

01:19:13,913 –> 01:19:23,913

I have a question on the mediation net, because if we get into the realm of the politics, what is it

 

1090

01:19:25,353 –> 01:19:33,673

I just believe we have more in common that, you know, regardless of what issues we’re talking about from politics, I think we have more in common than we have in difference.

 

1091

01:19:33,913 –> 01:19:39,193

But yet the focus is always on, at least on the public conversation.

 

1092

01:19:39,673 –> 01:19:42,473

It’s like, you think we should paint the wall yellow?

 

1093

01:19:42,553 –> 01:19:44,233

I think we should paint it purple.

 

1094

01:19:44,713 –> 01:19:46,153

Yellow is a stupid color.

 

1095

01:19:46,153 –> 01:19:47,153

It should be purple, right?

 

1096

01:19:47,153 –> 01:19:49,593

And you’re like, why would anybody want to paint it purple?

 

1097

01:19:49,593 –> 01:19:52,393

That’s the only idiots would make it purple, right?

 

1098

01:19:54,153 –> 01:20:08,073

Yet we both agree we want this nice house and we have this room and it’s going to be the game room for the kids because we want our kids to have this nice environment to play in.

 

1099

01:20:08,513 –> 01:20:10,473

But we just disagree on what color to paint it.

 

1100

01:20:10,713 –> 01:20:12,873

But all the other stuff we agree on.

 

1101

01:20:13,433 –> 01:20:22,233

In the mediation, I just believe like on a political side, like almost we got to remind ourselves that we have so much more in common than we have a part.

 

1102

01:20:22,753 –> 01:20:27,273

Does that factor in the mediation when you’re down at the more granular level of a company?

 

1103

01:20:27,313 –> 01:20:33,113

Like kind of pointing out that like, look, there’s you disagree on this, but you agree on this, right?

 

1104

01:20:34,793 –> 01:20:35,193

Yeah.

 

1105

01:20:35,993 –> 01:20:37,433

Yeah, let’s pick our fights, right?

 

1106

01:20:37,593 –> 01:20:38,713

Let’s pick our fights.

 

1107

01:20:39,073 –> 01:20:40,073

Let’s choose our fights.

 

1108

01:20:40,073 –> 01:20:41,353

We cannot fight in everything.

 

1109

01:20:42,873 –> 01:20:43,193

Right?

 

1110

01:20:43,353 –> 01:20:54,073

So basically, when we have these situations, we need to understand what is behind, what is behind the call of each one.

 

1111

01:20:54,793 –> 01:20:55,193

Why?

 

1112

01:20:55,833 –> 01:20:56,113

Right?

 

1113

01:20:56,113 –> 01:20:58,073

The question is, why?

 

1114

01:20:59,273 –> 01:21:04,193

We need to understand what is behind, what is beyond that response or that reaction.

 

1115

01:21:05,233 –> 01:21:13,993

And once we feel that, once we realize what it is, it’s easier to overcome the dispute or the argument, you know?

 

1116

01:21:14,353 –> 01:21:19,913

But the problem is that we cannot just work on the colors, taking the example you gave to me.

 

1117

01:21:21,273 –> 01:21:24,473

I mean, purple is purple, red is red, blue is blue.

 

1118

01:21:24,553 –> 01:21:25,273

Exactly, yeah.

 

1119

01:21:26,073 –> 01:21:30,753

Well, that’s why, you know, you talk about self-knowledge and I also think there’s a…

 

1120

01:21:32,313 –> 01:21:37,113

To me, the predicate of the self-knowledge is the humility.

 

1121

01:21:38,473 –> 01:21:42,153

You have to have the humility that you don’t know everything and you might be wrong.

 

1122

01:21:44,713 –> 01:21:48,193

You brought a very, very powerful word.

 

1123

01:21:49,033 –> 01:21:59,913

One of the first lessons I tell people when they are taking self-knowledge programs is that you have to have humility and acceptance.

 

1124

01:22:00,793 –> 01:22:00,993

Right.

 

1125

01:22:01,033 –> 01:22:05,833

You need to accept certain things with humility.

 

1126

01:22:05,833 –> 01:22:07,273

Once you’re ready to do it.

 

1127

01:22:07,273 –> 01:22:09,593

And look, there’s a big difference between.

 

1128

01:22:09,673 –> 01:22:10,713

Right, right, right, right.

 

1129

01:22:11,193 –> 01:22:12,633

And agree with something.

 

1130

01:22:13,993 –> 01:22:14,393

Okay.

 

1131

01:22:14,713 –> 01:22:19,193

So I accept that my colleague has this problem, but I don’t agree.

 

1132

01:22:19,433 –> 01:22:20,313

I don’t have to agree.

 

1133

01:22:20,873 –> 01:22:21,913

I just need to accept.

 

1134

01:22:22,833 –> 01:22:23,193

Okay.

 

1135

01:22:23,273 –> 01:22:26,473

So I accept I’m going to continue work with him.

 

1136

01:22:27,113 –> 01:22:27,593

Okay.

 

1137

01:22:27,873 –> 01:22:32,393

I’m not going to make this a huge problem because I accept that this is his problem.

 

1138

01:22:32,393 –> 01:22:49,913

Well, you know, I, I, I, but I don’t, on the personality side, I found that, you know, like the personality assessments, I personally found that understanding personality helped me with the acceptance because it

 

1139

01:22:50,793 –> 01:23:02,713

Because I understood what my personality was, but in understanding where I was on all those spectrum, you know, on all those dimensions, it means that somebody else is not where I am on those.

 

1140

01:23:03,353 –> 01:23:05,913

And to your point, it’s like, well, they’re just different.

 

1141

01:23:06,033 –> 01:23:17,833

And I don’t agree with them because I’m on this end of that scale and they’re on this end of that scale, you know, the opposite end, but you know, but just that’s,

 

1142

01:23:18,313 –> 01:23:19,593

It doesn’t mean I’m better.

 

1143

01:23:19,593 –> 01:23:27,273

It just means I was born with this predisposition to be on this end of the scale, and they were born with this predisposition to be on the other end of the scale.

 

1144

01:23:27,673 –> 01:23:31,833

And it’s not, you know, and so they look at the world a little differently than I do.

 

1145

01:23:34,313 –> 01:23:34,513

Yeah.

 

1146

01:23:34,553 –> 01:23:38,553

And sometimes people were exposed, Jack, for certain things.

 

1147

01:23:38,553 –> 01:23:39,433

They didn’t want to.

 

1148

01:23:41,193 –> 01:23:41,513

Right?

 

1149

01:23:42,073 –> 01:23:42,313

Right.

 

1150

01:23:42,473 –> 01:23:44,473

Like one thing that I didn’t mention to you.

 

1151

01:23:45,273 –> 01:23:46,233

How did I start?

 

1152

01:23:46,233 –> 01:23:49,353

Hey, Rubens, how did you start in conflict and mediation?

 

1153

01:23:51,873 –> 01:23:53,033

No, because you know what?

 

1154

01:23:53,113 –> 01:23:59,233

We are talking about the law of the mediation, and I think I forgot to mention when was the starting point in my life?

 

1155

01:23:59,833 –> 01:24:00,313

Okay.

 

1156

01:24:00,793 –> 01:24:03,193

It started when I was 12 years old.

 

1157

01:24:03,353 –> 01:24:06,833

I was engaged in mediation without knowing about mediation.

 

1158

01:24:07,593 –> 01:24:09,233

You know, I was exposed

 

1159

01:24:09,673 –> 01:24:12,073

in many family disputes and conflicts.

 

1160

01:24:12,873 –> 01:24:26,473

And at that moment, I just felt that instead going out to play with my friends, I had to stay over and protect the environment and try to help my family to overcome with 12 years old.

 

1161

01:24:27,433 –> 01:24:27,753

Right.

 

1162

01:24:27,753 –> 01:24:36,953

So I was exposed to these situations from 12 years old, probably to 16, 17.

 

1163

01:24:38,553 –> 01:24:39,033

So

 

1164

01:24:39,673 –> 01:24:41,113

I didn’t know about mediation.

 

1165

01:24:41,193 –> 01:24:42,953

I didn’t have any training program.

 

1166

01:24:43,433 –> 01:24:45,153

I didn’t know what I was doing.

 

1167

01:24:45,593 –> 01:24:56,393

If you ask me today, I would say probably that moment was the best training I ever had in my life to help families and people today.

 

1168

01:24:57,433 –> 01:24:57,753

Right.

 

1169

01:24:58,313 –> 01:25:03,113

But if you ask me, yeah, if you take me back there as a kid and ask me, are you happy?

 

1170

01:25:03,233 –> 01:25:03,793

Of course not.

 

1171

01:25:03,793 –> 01:25:05,193

I would be suffering.

 

1172

01:25:05,793 –> 01:25:07,113

I would be very sad.

 

1173

01:25:07,913 –> 01:25:17,353

I would be like building some sort of past experience inside myself, in my inner that I would have to deal in the long run.

 

1174

01:25:17,833 –> 01:25:24,033

So today, and this is very interesting because people normally swept the dust under the rug.

 

1175

01:25:24,873 –> 01:25:25,113

Right.

 

1176

01:25:25,193 –> 01:25:28,193

And because they don’t want to face the past experience.

 

1177

01:25:28,193 –> 01:25:33,353

And sometimes, Jeff, the past experience are your best ally in life.

 

1178

01:25:34,553 –> 01:25:47,513

So, I mean, the experience I had from this, I wouldn’t say pleasant experience as a kid gave me thousands of tools to understand people and help people today.

 

1179

01:25:48,873 –> 01:25:49,353

Okay.

 

1180

01:25:49,513 –> 01:25:51,673

So basically,

 

1181

01:25:53,033 –> 01:25:55,593

This is self-awareness, okay?

 

1182

01:25:55,833 –> 01:26:07,673

Another very simple and quick example, when I decide to move from Brazil to US, I knew this path would be very challenging for me.

 

1183

01:26:08,313 –> 01:26:08,793

Okay.

 

1184

01:26:09,113 –> 01:26:17,353

And last year, which was the 2024, which was like a very difficult year for myself because I was setting my family, you know, learning the process.

 

1185

01:26:17,353 –> 01:26:20,313

I didn’t even know how to write a check.

 

1186

01:26:20,553 –> 01:26:25,753

Let’s put this way, you know, it was like a, just like a new guy in town, right?

 

1187

01:26:25,753 –> 01:26:28,153

So imagine for myself.

 

1188

01:26:29,033 –> 01:26:32,473

I was in Brazil, my business going really well.

 

1189

01:26:32,553 –> 01:26:34,633

It’s still going, you know, I kept that.

 

1190

01:26:34,633 –> 01:26:37,353

So let’s get back a little bit in the script of our lives.

 

1191

01:26:37,353 –> 01:26:41,753

Remember the first one, the first topic of the human needs, comfort and certainty.

 

1192

01:26:41,753 –> 01:26:46,953

I had certainty and comfort in a very high level in Brazil.

 

1193

01:26:47,593 –> 01:26:54,313

When I moved to US, it’s taking some time to make my business profitable.

 

1194

01:26:55,193 –> 01:27:00,233

So I’m not as comfortable as I used to be in Brazil, right?

 

1195

01:27:02,633 –> 01:27:07,753

Another example, recognition, importance, significance.

 

1196

01:27:08,633 –> 01:27:10,793

I’m a guy in Brazil that people know my name.

 

1197

01:27:11,833 –> 01:27:20,393

After so many things I’ve done, people walk in virtues to seek for my job, for my service, better sane, right?

 

1198

01:27:22,233 –> 01:27:22,793

And here…

 

1199

01:27:22,793 –> 01:27:26,153

I mean, in Brazil, you literally wrote a book on mediation.

 

1200

01:27:28,433 –> 01:27:30,153

Yes, I have a book in mediation.

 

1201

01:27:30,233 –> 01:27:36,833

And here, I’m like my little kid starting to walk in this country, this beautiful country.

 

1202

01:27:37,273 –> 01:27:40,953

So if I’m not aware of this, okay, why I’m saying this?

 

1203

01:27:41,353 –> 01:27:49,193

Because from last year up today, up to this date, I’ve been working myself in the script over my life.

 

1204

01:27:50,953 –> 01:27:55,353

to keep myself, in the right path.

 

1205

01:27:55,753 –> 01:27:59,953

Meaning that I understand that there is a big challenge in front of me.

 

1206

01:28:00,073 –> 01:28:01,833

of me and I have to take time.

 

1207

01:28:02,553 –> 01:28:09,513

So I’m using my own tools, virtuous tools to keep myself on track and confident about my past.

 

1208

01:28:10,113 –> 01:28:12,233

So this is the beauty about the self-knowledge.

 

1209

01:28:12,633 –> 01:28:15,313

This is the beauty about getting to know yourself.

 

1210

01:28:15,313 –> 01:28:17,993

Well, and you’re a living testament to it.

 

1211

01:28:17,993 –> 01:28:23,153

I mean, you’ve taken on this challenge and you’re doing it and it’s amazing.

 

1212

01:28:23,153 –> 01:28:25,713

And just

 

1213

01:28:26,313 –> 01:28:30,473

congratulations on, well, like I said, the fortitude to do that and then everything that’s coming.

 

1214

01:28:30,473 –> 01:28:41,193

And as we wrap up here, I think that was a nice thing to wrap up on, but is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we go?

 

1215

01:28:41,193 –> 01:28:44,153

Because that was a really nice way to kind of sum the whole thing up.

 

1216

01:28:44,153 –> 01:28:51,032

I mean, you’ve got this training program and you actually apply it to your own life and here you are on this great adventure.

 

1217

01:28:51,232 –> 01:28:52,312

I mean, what an adventure.

 

1218

01:28:53,152 –> 01:28:54,952

It’s just so cool.

 

1219

01:28:56,152 –> 01:29:11,032

to leave the comfort of that certainty and seek out something new and exciting and different and your family’s going to thrive as a result and I have no

 

1220

01:29:11,912 –> 01:29:18,472

No question, you’ll do a great job here because you’re just a really interesting, remarkable human being.

 

1221

01:29:18,952 –> 01:29:20,552

But anything you want to share before we go?

 

1222

01:29:20,712 –> 01:29:21,192

Thank you.

 

1223

01:29:21,192 –> 01:29:23,032

Thank you first for the words, Jeff.

 

1224

01:29:23,152 –> 01:29:25,752

I mean, it’s a pleasure to be here.

 

1225

01:29:26,112 –> 01:29:29,032

I want to thank the audience for the patience to hear me.

 

1226

01:29:29,552 –> 01:29:33,352

I’m sorry if I say something wrong or my accent here.

 

1227

01:29:33,352 –> 01:29:37,352

Sometimes, you know, I’m doing my very best here to be as clear as possible.

 

1228

01:29:37,352 –> 01:29:41,752

And the only thing that I would like to share, I think we covered the whole thing, but

 

1229

01:29:42,232 –> 01:29:45,992

Just don’t wait crisis or chaos to connect yourself.

 

1230

01:29:46,712 –> 01:29:52,312

Put the self-awareness, you know, the learning about how to deal with conflicts in your life,

 

1231

01:29:53,552 –> 01:29:59,472

in an ongoing basis, in order to grow, not to solve problems, only to solve problems.

 

1232

01:29:59,472 –> 01:30:04,392

And this is for companies, this is for individuals, for families.

 

1233

01:30:05,272 –> 01:30:06,632

Be in charge of your life.

 

1234

01:30:07,072 –> 01:30:17,832

And in order to be in charge of your life, to take the right decisions, the right path, and know how to redirect when you are in the wrong path, you’ve got to connect yourself to your inner.

 

1235

01:30:19,232 –> 01:30:27,592

look for those tools because you’re going to have a happier, a better life and more solid relationships.

 

1236

01:30:27,792 –> 01:30:30,232

That’s my message for everyone.

 

1237

01:30:30,472 –> 01:30:31,592

Well, thank you Ruben.

 

1238

01:30:32,032 –> 01:30:33,432

Great words to end on.

 

1239

01:30:33,632 –> 01:30:37,192

And my guest today, Ruben Tilkian from Vertis.

 

1240

01:30:37,352 –> 01:30:41,632

Ruben, thank you for taking the time to chat with me this morning.

 

1241

01:30:41,632 –> 01:30:42,712

I really enjoyed it.

 

1242

01:30:42,712 –> 01:30:44,952

I learned something, always loved learning things.

 

1243

01:30:45,472 –> 01:30:47,592

And it was a fun conversation.

 

1244

01:30:47,912 –> 01:30:49,152

And thank you everybody out there for

 

1245

01:30:49,232 –> 01:30:49,832

for listening.

 

1246

01:30:50,392 –> 01:30:52,072

Talk to you soon and God bless.