Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
Training is only truly valuable when learners can take what they have learned and use it in the real world.
That distinction between knowing something and actually doing something sits at the heart of this episode of the Training Impact Podcast. Host Jeff Walter sits down with Amy Fox, co-founder and CEO of LearningQ, to explore how short, accessible learning experiences can help people with disabilities develop practical skills for employment, independent living, health, wellness, and everyday life.
Amy’s career has been rooted in education for decades. She began as an editor working with educational publishers, including Wiley and National Geographic, before moving into healthcare education, population health management, and programs serving people with disabilities. Those experiences eventually led her and her co-founders to create LearningQ with support from Small Business Innovation Research funding.
What makes the platform particularly interesting from a learning and development perspective is not simply the population it serves. It is the way Amy and her team have broken learning into small, practical experiences designed around a very specific question: Can the learner actually use what they have learned?
That question leads Jeff and Amy into a broader discussion about microlearning, repetition, assessment, habit formation, and why training programs need to look beyond completion and knowledge acquisition if they want to produce meaningful outcomes.
The platform primarily serves people with disabilities, including many learners with intellectual disabilities who may benefit from lower literacy requirements, additional time, shorter learning experiences, and repetition.
Rather than designing primarily around the needs of instructors or support professionals, the experience is focused directly on the learner. Amy explains that this learner-centered approach is one of the characteristics that differentiates the platform from many alternatives serving the disability community.
The basic concept is straightforward. A learner signs in, watches a short video focused on a specific skill, answers assessment questions, and can return to the material whenever reinforcement is needed.
That simplicity is intentional.
For a learner who may have a shorter attention span or require repetition to retain information, a lengthy course containing numerous concepts can create unnecessary barriers. Instead, larger skills are broken into highly focused learning experiences.
Amy gives the example of safely locking up a house at night.
Instead of building a traditional course about home safety, a roughly 90-second lesson can show the learner how to check doors and windows, turn off lights, make sure appliances are off, and complete the other steps associated with preparing the home for the night.
The lesson becomes more than educational content. It can become a practical tool the learner uses at the moment the skill needs to be performed.
A person preparing for bed can revisit the video, complete the steps, and reinforce the routine again the following evening.
That combination of learning and point-of-use reinforcement is one of the most important ideas to emerge from the conversation.
Jeff spends considerable time exploring one aspect of the LearningQ model that has implications far beyond its core learner population: application.
Traditional training frequently focuses on knowledge acquisition. Learners consume content, complete an assessment, receive a passing score, and are considered trained.
But knowing what to do is different from doing it.
Amy explains that the program initially used assessment questions focused primarily on knowledge and understanding. Over time, feedback encouraged the team to add questions designed specifically around application.
Instead of only asking whether learners know that doors and windows should be checked before bed, for example, the system can ask whether they actually completed the task.
That seemingly small distinction changes the nature of the learning experience.
The learner is no longer simply demonstrating that they remember information. They are being prompted to connect that information with an action in their everyday life.
Jeff describes this as a form of self-verification. Repeatedly asking a learner whether they performed an action introduces a simple mechanism for connecting learning with doing.
For learning and development professionals, this raises an important question: How often are we measuring what learners know when what we actually care about is what they do?
The program also uses pre- and post-assessments to better understand whether learning is creating measurable improvement.
For certifications, learners can begin with a pre-assessment containing questions pulled from across the learning experience. That creates a baseline before the learner starts the program.
After completing the videos, quizzes, and activities, the learner completes another assessment. The starting point can then be compared with results after training.
According to Amy, across the organizations using the platform, the company has seen an average 127 percent skills increase. She also reports an 85 percent completion rate.
Those measurements are particularly important because the organization is not simply asking whether learners watched a video. The goal is to understand whether knowledge, understanding, and application have changed.
That approach also creates a feedback loop for improving the content itself.
Amy describes a manufacturing and warehousing program in which learners consistently struggled with a particular assessment question involving safety-sign colors. Instead of assuming the learners were failing, the team examined the question and determined that the question itself was creating a problem.
They went back and looked for a better way to teach and assess the skill. Because the lesson was delivered through microlearning, an individual piece of the learning experience could be revised without rebuilding a large course.
This is an important advantage of designing learning in smaller units. Individual pieces can be tested, evaluated, modified, and redeployed as evidence begins to show what is and is not working.
The conversation then moves into one of the most interesting themes of the episode: repetition.
For many of the learners Amy’s team serves, repeating material is not an inconvenience. It is an important part of learning and retention.
A short lesson can be watched again and again. More importantly, it can be revisited near the moment when the learner needs to perform the task.
The model therefore begins to blur the line between formal training and performance support.
A lesson about preparing for work can be reviewed before leaving home. A lesson about cooking can be accessed while preparing food. A home-safety lesson can be reviewed before going to bed.
Instead of expecting the learner to remember information presented days or weeks earlier, the learning resource remains available as an ongoing reinforcement tool.
Jeff connects this concept to habit formation during the conversation. Amy explains that she and her co-founders had read Atomic Habits and incorporated some of those ideas into their early thinking about the learning units.
This is particularly relevant because many training programs still treat learning as an event.
A learner takes the course. The learner passes the assessment. The course is complete.
The more interesting question is what happens after completion.
What happens if the learner continues receiving small reminders, refreshers, and opportunities to apply the material after the formal learning experience?
That question is becoming particularly important in one of the organization’s newer initiatives.
Amy describes a pilot involving 500 teenagers in addiction treatment. At the time of the podcast conversation, approximately 100 participants had gone through about six weeks of training.
The project extends the learning model beyond knowledge and understanding toward the more complicated challenge of behavior. One idea being explored is a recurring refresher that revisits material learners have worked on during the week.
The long-term question is how frequently those refreshers should occur.
Should reinforcement happen every day? Once a week? Once a month?
Those are questions the team wants to explore as the pilot progresses.
Amy is also careful not to position the learning platform as a replacement for therapy, counseling, treatment, or other professional services. She describes it instead as a tool that reinforces an existing program, counseling, therapy, or training.
That distinction is significant.
Training does not always have to carry the entire burden of changing performance or behavior. Sometimes its greatest value comes from reinforcing a larger system.
Within the addiction-treatment initiative, the team has focused on a behavioral objective that sounds simple but could have meaningful implications: helping a learner develop the habit of pausing before making a decision. The initiative, called Project Reset, recognizes that addiction, particularly among teenagers, exists within an extraordinarily complicated environment. Trauma, lifestyle, social determinants of health, personal relationships, and numerous other factors may influence a young person’s behavior, which means a learning program cannot reasonably be expected to address every factor contributing to addiction or treatment outcomes.
Rather than attempting to solve all of those challenges through training, the program concentrates on one specific behavior that learners can practice and reinforce. Amy describes it as creating a moment of pause before taking the next action, similar to taking a deep breath, counting to ten, and giving yourself an opportunity to reconsider what you are about to do. In a treatment environment where staff may be responding to anger, self-harm, fights, altercations, and other difficult situations, helping someone create even a small amount of space between an impulse and the action that follows could become an important skill.
The pilot is expected to run for six months, and the participating organization is tracking outcomes that include the number of incidents occurring at the facility. Amy is careful, however, not to suggest that changes in those incidents can automatically be attributed to the training. The learning experience represents only one part of each participant’s day and exists within a much larger treatment environment, so establishing a direct relationship between the training and broader behavioral outcomes will require considerably more evidence.
That measured approach reflects one of the most interesting aspects of the work. Rather than positioning training as a solution to every problem, Project Reset provides an opportunity to explore whether a focused learning intervention, supported by repetition and ongoing reinforcement, can contribute to a broader treatment program. The team can concentrate on a specific behavior, provide learners with opportunities to practice and reinforce it, examine what happens over time, and use those results to determine how the learning experience should evolve. In many ways, that same approach applies well beyond this particular project: identify the behavior that matters, create learning that supports it, measure what happens when learners put it into practice, and continually improve the program based on what the evidence reveals.
One of Amy’s most important observations is that microlearning should not necessarily be treated as a standalone learning system.
It can be a component within a much larger ecosystem.
A short learning intervention could reinforce classroom instruction, coaching, workforce development, counseling, healthcare education, or another structured program.
Jeff draws a comparison to another microlearning model in which learners receive a small number of questions each day, with the questions served to individuals based on their previous answers and identified knowledge gaps.
The concept points toward an increasingly personalized model of reinforcement.
Instead of asking every learner to repeatedly consume the same content, learning systems can potentially identify gaps and deliver small interventions based on what an individual learner needs to practice.
For L&D leaders, that creates an intriguing alternative to the traditional course model.
Rather than asking, “What course should this learner take?” the better question may eventually become, “What does this person need to practice today?”
The platform’s potential applications are not limited to younger learners.
Amy discusses previous projects involving adults over age 50 who had lifelong cognitive disabilities. She also describes early exploration of possible applications involving aging and cognitive decline.
The potential use cases are highly practical.
Preventing falls, avoiding scams, practicing proper hygiene, maintaining a healthy diet, and reinforcing everyday safety practices could all make a meaningful difference in someone’s ability to remain more independent.
The same approach could potentially support family caregivers.
As more responsibility for aging relatives falls on family members who may have little formal caregiver training, short and accessible learning resources could provide practical guidance without requiring someone to complete extensive formal coursework.
Once again, the value comes from positioning learning near the point of need.
Interestingly, Amy says some of the barriers the organization encounters are not necessarily resistance from learners.
Learners themselves can be highly interested in the material.
The barriers can instead come from the environment surrounding them.
A support professional may decide there is not enough time to use the platform. A parent may limit computer access. A learner may encounter login difficulties.
These seemingly mundane obstacles matter because even exceptional learning content creates no impact when the learner cannot reach it.
That is an important reminder for anyone managing a training program.
Learning design matters. Content quality matters. Assessment matters. Technology matters. But accessibility and operational execution matter just as much.
The best learning experience in the world produces little value when friction prevents the learner from participating.
Although LearningQ has been intentionally designed around people with disabilities, Jeff raises an important point near the end of the conversation.
Many of the techniques used to make learning more accessible for this population may have much broader applications.
Shorter learning experiences, clear instructions, repetition, point-of-use reinforcement, pre-assessment, post-assessment, application questions, self-verification, personalized refreshers, and continuous content improvement are not principles that only matter for one learner population.
They are learning practices that could potentially improve training in many environments.
In fact, designing for learners who face greater barriers can force instructional designers to remove unnecessary complexity and focus more clearly on what actually produces learning and application.
That may be one of the most important lessons this episode offers the broader learning and development community.
The discussion is not simply about making courses shorter.
It is about reconsidering how learning is structured around the person who ultimately needs to use it.
Amy and her team are continuing to explore additional applications for their approach.
During the episode, she discusses potential research involving physical exercise, addiction, and emotional wellness. She also says the organization wants to become more serious about artificial intelligence after spending time watching how the technology develops.
Amy characterizes the organization as reaching the point where it is ready to move from “phase one” into “phase two.”
That next phase may include larger partners that can help the company reach more people while continuing to build on the learner-centered approach developed during its first several years.
For Jeff, the conversation comes back to one of the recurring themes of the Training Impact Podcast: learning and development should pay more attention to outputs, not simply inputs.
How many courses were created?
How many learners enrolled?
How many videos were watched?
How many people completed the program?
Those numbers can be useful operational metrics, but they are not the final destination.
The more important questions are harder.
Did someone learn something? Can they apply it? Did their performance change? Did they become more independent? Did the learning make a meaningful difference?
That is where training begins moving from activity to impact.
The conversation with Amy Fox provides an important reminder that effective learning does not always have to be complicated.
Sometimes a powerful learning intervention may be a short video delivered at exactly the moment someone needs it.
The larger challenge is creating an environment where that small intervention becomes part of a continuous cycle of learning, application, repetition, measurement, and improvement.
LearningQ demonstrates how microlearning can become more than simply shorter content. When small learning experiences are connected to practical activities, reinforcement, assessment, and measurable outcomes, they can help create a bridge between knowing and doing.
For learning and development professionals, that may be the most valuable takeaway from this episode.
The goal is not simply to create better courses.
The goal is to help people become more capable and use what they learn in ways that make a meaningful difference in their everyday lives.
Learn more about LearningQ, its certifications, research, programs, and learning resources at https://www.learningq.org/.
For more from the Training Impact Podcast, follow us on Social Media: https://t-sml.mtrbio.com/public/smartlink/trainingimpactpodcast
Jeff Walter (00:00)
Hi, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast, where we explore scaling through training infrastructure. Today I’m joined by Amy Fox, co-founder and CEO of LearningQ
A learning platform focused on helping people develop the skills they need for work, independent living, and personal wellness. LearningQ uses short, accessible video lessons that allow people to learn at their own pace and revisit skills when they need them. Amy, welcome to the program.
Amy Fox (00:29)
Thanks so much, Jeff. It’s great to be here.
Jeff Walter (00:32)
So Amy, as my my listeners know, I’m always interested in the journey people take. so co-founder of Learning Cue, how did you what what’s what was the journey that got you there and why did you start Learning Cue or co-founder?
Amy Fox (00:45)
Well, it’s been an interesting and a fun journey. I was lucky enough to join forces with two co-founders when we kicked off Learning Q about four years ago. I’ve been in the education and disability space for most of my career. Started as a book editor with an educational publisher called Wiley and National
Jeff Walter (01:06)
Uh-huh.
Amy Fox (01:07)
Geographic did about
60 different titles with them and over 300 articles. So I was steeped deep in the education space. I got involved with health and wellness and some of the disability related issues with chronic disease. So I moved into some spaces in healthcare with educational training.
and continued to put programs together for organizations and government entities like the USDA, the state of Florida, tenant health care. They were mostly projects that involved solving a kind of crisis situation and then implementing
Jeff Walter (01:49)
Uh-huh.
Amy Fox (01:49)
a solution through education with population health management. So fast forward.
about 15 years and I dropped solidly into the disability space after my son was born and was able to start the micro learning specifically for life skills development. And then we started Learning Q with the support of small business innovation funding grants. So we had almost
Jeff Walter (02:17)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (02:17)
half a million dollars that we were able to get started with.
to build the platform.
Jeff Walter (02:23)
And
and so help us understand what learning queue is. Quick yeah, but w you know, what so what is learning queue and and who are the learners?
Amy Fox (02:34)
Okay, so essentially we work with any learner that has a disability. Most
Jeff Walter (02:41)
Okay.
Amy Fox (02:41)
of our learners have an intellectual disability, so they may require a lower literacy level. They might require more time to finish completing a task or understanding a new skill.
They have typically a shorter attention span. And for retention, they largely will utilize repetition to help learn and keep that skill fresh in their mind. So our content is essentially on a SAS platform where the learner logs in, they watch a short video, and then they answer a quiz question. And those metrics are tracked.
for outcomes with the agencies that use the platform. So it is somewhat unique in that most of the platforms out there are typically designed for the support professional, not for the learner. So we are solidly
Jeff Walter (03:39)
Right.
Amy Fox (03:40)
focused on the learner.
Jeff Walter (03:42)
And and the the learner are they are they minors, are they under eighteen, are they adult learners or or child children learners or both or
Amy Fox (03:49)
Yeah,
yeah. So you know, it’s really run the gamut. Every state, you know, has educational programs that vary a little bit with how
Jeff Walter (03:58)
Right.
Amy Fox (03:58)
they use us. So there are what they call transitional programs that are focused specifically on workforce training, and your next steps after high school.
Jeff Walter (04:08)
Right.
Amy Fox (04:09)
That’s a huge part of the population that we serve. But there are some transitional programs that will start as early as 14, like in the state of
Jeff Walter (04:17)
Okay.
Amy Fox (04:17)
Texas. So
We might have learners that are in the seventh or the eighth grade. Interestingly, we’ve found we had a couple projects two years ago that were with seniors over the age of 50 with cognitive disabilities. And they did really, really well on the platform, which was, it was surprising to all of us because it was a lot to not only were they interfacing with technology, but they were interfacing with a new, completely new way of learning.
So I would say our sweet spot is somewhere between 15 and 40, typically.
Jeff Walter (04:54)
Okay. And
yeah, well I yeah, it’s funny you mentioned that ’cause I know in Michigan or in in our
Amy Fox (05:00)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (05:00)
my district, you know, we had a young adult program, which I think was through age twenty five for folks with with di disabilities, you know, to help them transition from that academic environment
Amy Fox (05:11)
That’s right.
Jeff Walter (05:11)
to you know be able to be to independent living and be you and and work and and and that.
so it so it sounds like that’s the sweet spot. But I you know it’s
Amy Fox (05:20)
That is.
Jeff Walter (05:21)
it’s interesting what I I I want to drill down though into the fifty plus. So is
Amy Fox (05:26)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (05:26)
that w were those folks when you looked at the fifty plus, was that folks that had had a cognitive disability and now they’re over fifty, or or folks that had had cognitive decline and d you know what I’m saying?
Amy Fox (05:39)
Yeah, great question.
Because we are actually getting into the aging space with the cognitive decline, but that
Jeff Walter (05:47)
Yeah.
Amy Fox (05:47)
group of participants had had a lifelong cognitive disability. So they
Jeff Walter (05:54)
Okay.
Amy Fox (05:54)
were they were in something called a day program, where, you know, they show up on site for six or eight hours a day, and it was part of their program.
Jeff Walter (06:04)
So so now let’s shift to so okay, so we we have folks and you said primarily you know cognitive disability of all ages,
Amy Fox (06:12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (06:14)
but but really kind of working on those life skills, those independent living skills.
How
what what is it that you guys do that makes it successful? And what well let’s start. What kind of outcomes can be expected and and what is it, how do you approach it that makes it different than fo than say traditional learning environments or traditional courses or e-learning courses?
Amy Fox (06:38)
Sure.
Well, so there’s a couple ways that we looked at it. One was if we were going to build a platform that could create a measurement, that measurement has to reflect knowledge and understanding as well as application.
Jeff Walter (06:55)
Okay.
Amy Fox (06:56)
if you…
In general, if you look at education and how people learn, it’s one thing to know it, it’s one thing to understand it, but then it’s another thing to be able to apply it daily.
Jeff Walter (07:06)
Right.
Amy Fox (07:07)
So typically, we might look at something like workforce training, or we might look at a soft skill like problem solving, or we might look at communication, effective communication.
Jeff Walter (07:21)
Uh-huh.
Amy Fox (07:24)
What we did was the content itself, because it is micro learning, it allows you to be really, really specific about one very specific topic. Like I’ll give you an example, safely locking up your house at night.
Jeff Walter (07:40)
Okay.
Amy Fox (07:41)
You can do a 90 second video that shows somebody going around every door, every window, turning off the lights, making sure the kitchen appliances are turned off, cetera, et cetera.
For someone with an intellectual disability, that’s a huge win for them if they’ve got that. Like, you know what? It’s nine o’clock, I’m gonna watch my video and then I’m gonna go to bed, right? Because you’ve just run through the whole checklist that you need.
Jeff Walter (08:05)
Huh.
Amy Fox (08:06)
On the reporting side, let’s say that person has Medicaid reimbursement or let’s say that person has an oversight.
support staff that’s making sure that Amy got into bed safely. As soon as they see that turned on, that Amy’s completed her check, that’s a super important metric that allows people to not only live more independently, but to practice those skills on a regular basis. we backing back out of this question again, what we wanted to do
was we wanted to look at the 83 % of people that weren’t receiving services. So
Jeff Walter (08:48)
Right, right.
Amy Fox (08:49)
workforce training, living independently, health and wellness issues. And so we set it up so that anyone that was gonna get onto the platform to learn these skills, they were gonna be skills that would help them in these areas where they might not be getting the support they need from an agency because they’re on a wait list.
Jeff Walter (09:10)
Okay. Well
Amy Fox (09:10)
So.
Jeff Walter (09:11)
so let’s take that example ’cause that was a that’s an interesting
Amy Fox (09:12)
and
Jeff Walter (09:13)
example, you know, the the locking up the house at night and
and
Amy Fox (09:17)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (09:18)
and well it and I think you you said it earlier, i i espe especially with well it’s truth.
people just in general, but it sounds like especially true for this particular population, is keep it short, right? The micro learning, right? So that you
Amy Fox (09:33)
Yep, yep.
Jeff Walter (09:34)
can, you know, not don’t inundate the senses with a bunch of other information, which but so let’s take the closing up at night. You said like a 90 second video says, okay, you know, almost like checklist stuff. Do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. So
The ha let’s h how do you ensure comprehension and how do you uns how do you or how do you gauge comprehension and how do you gauge
Amy Fox (09:57)
Right, right.
Jeff Walter (09:58)
application in that in that scenario?
Amy Fox (10:01)
Right, well, so we started off with three questions and those three questions in the Bloom taxonomy were for knowledge and understanding. So we had a question like, have you identified all the windows and doors in your house that need to be locked?
Right. And so, and then you would have maybe a true fall. So yes, no, pick the best answer, pick all that apply. Okay. So you’ve
Jeff Walter (10:26)
Yeah.
Amy Fox (10:27)
got those, those types of choices. Then for what happened was we heard from a lot of the people using it, that they really wanted additional questions that could showcase application. So,
but again, it’s one thing to know it and understand it. It’s another thing to apply it. So then what we started doing with our certifications, we have nine.
now is we made it a five part quiz question and we added two more questions that involved application. So it could be like the we determine what we’re going to use for those application questions unless the client tells us what they want.
Jeff Walter (11:04)
Okay.
Amy Fox (11:04)
So you know so for safely locking up at night I can’t remember exactly what the questions are.
But under application, one of them would be, did you complete your run through on safely locking up at night so that you would trigger that yes. And then the supervisor could see that on the learner’s dashboard. They would say, Amy completed her task and she’s finished her.
Jeff Walter (11:29)
Okay, so a and and did you find that that improved application or like Yeah, like I’m I
Amy Fox (11:37)
Yeah
Jeff Walter (11:37)
like I’m looking at the three going, Okay, you’re kinda classic micro or learning, classic learning like
Amy Fox (11:44)
Yeah,
yeah.
Jeff Walter (11:45)
Here’s
a bunch of information. Let me give you a couple qu a quick quiz to see did you
Amy Fox (11:49)
Yep.
Jeff Walter (11:49)
understand the information I sent? And okay, you
Amy Fox (11:52)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (11:52)
and with that, yes, you you learned it, you understand it through, you know, and then but
Amy Fox (11:56)
Yeah, exactly. Well, so what
Jeff Walter (11:59)
this is interesting, just asking the question, did you do it?
Amy Fox (12:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I mean the one of the things that we knew had to happen was a pre and a post, right? So you let’s say you’re going to complete your certification on living independently.
and it’s got
Jeff Walter (12:18)
Right.
Amy Fox (12:18)
your 25 micro units, it’s maybe an hour of learning total. So by
Jeff Walter (12:24)
Okay.
Amy Fox (12:24)
the time you get through the quizzes and videos, it takes you about an hour. Most people don’t finish it in one setting, but a lot of people do.
So before you start, there’s a 10 question assessment that pulls a random quiz question from all the topics. So you’ve got
Jeff Walter (12:41)
Okay. Yep, yep.
Amy Fox (12:42)
a baseline. So we capture a baseline with every learner before they start, and then we capture a baseline at the close when they’ve completed.
Jeff Walter (12:52)
So and and and
is that on the learning part? Like yes, like pretest. Like do
Amy Fox (12:57)
Yep.
Jeff Walter (12:57)
you do you know that do you know to do A, B, and C? And they’re like
Amy Fox (13:01)
That’s right.
Jeff Walter (13:02)
they get A right, they get B wrong, they get C wrong, and so they got
Amy Fox (13:05)
That’s right.
Jeff Walter (13:05)
like a thirty three percent pretest, and then they go through
Amy Fox (13:07)
That’s right.
Jeff Walter (13:08)
the program and they get a you know, an eighty or whatever the so you can kind of do the huh.
Amy Fox (13:11)
Right. Yeah. So what we’ve what we found overall
across the last four years with, you know, over 40 different organizations, I think we’re close to 60 now is
Jeff Walter (13:22)
Yeah, very interesting.
Amy Fox (13:24)
is 127 % skills increase on average. That’s the average, which is huge.
Jeff Walter (13:30)
and is that the understanding
or the application?
Amy Fox (13:34)
both combined. It’s all time. It does. Yep.
Jeff Walter (13:36)
And does the pretest have those those application questions? So
if we go back to our example, right? Like you know, you know, like a knowledge an understanding question would be something like, you know, which of the following do you need to do you need to check? Windows, doors, rugs, but you
Amy Fox (13:55)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (13:56)
know, something like that. And you go, okay, you know, windows and doors, not rugs. Boom. Multiple multi-ansor.
or something like that. But then the application question is would be like, did you check all your windows? Did you check all your doors? And and
Amy Fox (14:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (14:10)
so you would ask that on a pretest as well? Huh, interesting. So so it’s like a self verification.
Amy Fox (14:16)
Yeah, so
yeah, it is a self verification. I think the one of the numbers that’s just as important as that
Jeff Walter (14:24)
Interesting.
Amy Fox (14:25)
outcome is the completion rates. So
Jeff Walter (14:28)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Fox (14:29)
we have an 85 % completion rate and in the in the learning industry, as you probably know, online learning, having completion rates that high is is really stellar.
I think the average is around 30 or 40 percent of the people
Jeff Walter (14:46)
Right.
Amy Fox (14:47)
finish what they’ve started. So we haven’t determined is that because it’s micro learning? Is that because it’s the quality of the content?
felt very strongly from the get go that it had to be an A plus product.
Jeff Walter (15:03)
Right.
Amy Fox (15:03)
And so all of our content is built with subject matter experts.
people with lived experience that do all the review of the content. And then what we’ll also do is when we pilot the content, if we see that something is landing off, we’ll pull it, redo it and drop it in, which is
Jeff Walter (15:23)
Right, right.
Amy Fox (15:24)
the nice part about micro learning is that it’s a minute, right, of education that you’re going to revamp. So you can see pretty clearly, like just recently we had
a manufacturing and warehousing training
Jeff Walter (15:37)
huh.
Amy Fox (15:37)
that we did for an outside client. And one of the assessment questions asked the learner to identify the colors with the warning signs. So they had green, red, yellow, and blue. And everybody, everybody was doing poorly on it, everybody. So we went in and we looked at the question again, we realized
that it really wasn’t a fair question. Most people think of green as go and save, but they were the correct answer was green meant outside. So some of those things, right, you go back in and you tweak and you find a better way to teach that skill. So.
Jeff Walter (16:17)
Well, I i I I’m I’m I’m I’m I’m stuck on the application thing ’cause I th I think just in j in the industry in general, like you you’ve got a very specific audience that you’re focused on.
Amy Fox (16:27)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (16:28)
I think we’ve done a really good job as a as a learning development industry. We’re really good on the learning
Amy Fox (16:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (16:37)
and not so much on the development.
Because the development is the application. And like the way I think of it is there’s the knowledge acquisition and then the the skill or the do or the learn and the do, right? The develop and
Amy Fox (16:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (16:50)
and so it’s it’s really interesting that I
Amy Fox (16:53)
you
Jeff Walter (16:55)
I never thought about this before, but as you’re as you’re talking about the self-attestation of I did the thing, there’s like a a psychological trigger in there. Like like yes, you can, you know.
Anybody can lie, right? But but to to be repeatedly attesting that yes, I did it, yes, I did it, yes, I did it,
Amy Fox (17:15)
That’s it,
Jeff Walter (17:16)
yes, I did it, yes, I like and the repetition of that is I’d never I’ve never heard anybody use that as a technique for developing the application side and the development side. And that’s really interesting.
Amy Fox (17:26)
Right, yeah, well, and that’s an interesting,
yeah. So I’ll give you another example that we’re taking that further out. addiction treatment,
Jeff Walter (17:36)
Right.
Amy Fox (17:37)
addiction is considered a disability. It kind
Jeff Walter (17:40)
Uh-huh.
Amy Fox (17:40)
of falls in that bucket of behavioral health, chronic disease. So we are doing a huge pilot with 500 teens.
Jeff Walter (17:50)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (17:51)
in addiction treatment. We’ve got just about a hundred that we’ve gone through so far with about six weeks of training. And one of the things they wanted to introduce was to that point of application, we want
Jeff Walter (18:06)
Right.
Amy Fox (18:07)
a weekly refresher. We want a weekly
Jeff Walter (18:10)
Uh-huh.
Amy Fox (18:10)
refresher that revisits a random poll.
Jeff Walter (18:13)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (18:13)
of
all the things the learner has worked on that week just to see how they land with it again if they were to take that quiz.
Jeff Walter (18:21)
Right.
Amy Fox (18:23)
So we’ve started that with our first cohort and it’s a little bit janky. We haven’t…
like fully streamlined it into the platform so that you know like would pop up like would you like to opt into a refresher right but
Jeff Walter (18:40)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (18:41)
but we’re we’re kind of building the backside first like seeing how we want to build it exactly how many refreshers would be helpful so we’ve started so let’s say you’re a learner that has to get through 30 topics in a week
And it’s all ultimately what the addiction treatment space wants. They want behavior change, right? They want
Jeff Walter (19:01)
Right. Yeah.
Amy Fox (19:02)
the change in behavior. Well, that’s…
That’s a little bit outside of our comfort zone because we deal with knowledge, understanding and application. But it does work, right? You
Jeff Walter (19:13)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (19:14)
could connect the dots that if you had somebody nudging you and refreshing you on a regular basis, like make sure you complete this work and you do it every day and you practice it every day. Well, then what happens? And so that’s what we’re going to start taking a look at.
with both the learners and the support staff to see if not only if this content is helpful, but if they’re able to use what they learn on a regular basis. And then we’re
Jeff Walter (19:49)
Uh-huh.
Amy Fox (19:50)
going to kind of fold in this refresher piece to see would it be more helpful to have the refresher every day? Would it be more
Jeff Walter (19:57)
Yeah.
Amy Fox (19:58)
helpful to have it once a month?
that kind of thing. it goes again to your point of the application. Like how can we maximize this little tiny piece of learning? It’s not that much. It’s a tool. It’s not a standalone system. It’s not a, you start in September and you finish in June. It’s
Jeff Walter (20:19)
Right.
Amy Fox (20:19)
cool. It’s just a tool. It’s something that reinforces an existing program or existing counseling or therapy or training.
Jeff Walter (20:28)
Yeah. Well what what I find really interesting about the repetition
Amy Fox (20:33)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (20:34)
and and it it’s interesting you’re looking at addiction because the the the key issue with the addiction is is the neural pathways that you’ve built. And and that you know you end up building the these super highway neural pathways with all these on ramps that lead to use, right? And and
Amy Fox (20:50)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Jeff Walter (20:51)
and it’s like a freaking super highway in your brain and you can’t and you and
Amy Fox (20:54)
And it’s complicated, yeah.
Jeff Walter (20:56)
you just can’t
sh
you know, shut that highway off. Yeah, you can’t just close the highway down and it’s got a million on ramps, right?
Amy Fox (21:02)
Yep, yep.
Jeff Walter (21:03)
And so what I’m just listening to you, I’m like, huh, that’s really interesting. You’re you’re you’re doing the atomic habits thing of you know yeah. Yeah you you’re
Amy Fox (21:11)
Totally. That’s exactly how we built our first few units was off the Atomic Cabin’s book. We love that. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (21:18)
at of okay I’m gonna start building
these other pathways and just through through
Amy Fox (21:23)
That’s right.
Jeff Walter (21:24)
repetition. And it’s really interesting too because I I’ve seen you’re starting to see at the K-12 level, you know, as we’ve gone towards screens, getting away from screens and doing more repetition to build those neural pathways. Cause we, you know,
Amy Fox (21:38)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (21:39)
there was this movement to kind of, well, you don’t have to do, you know, your times tables 16 times and and the repetition.
But now all of a sudden there’s a whole cohort of kids that don’t know how multiply, right? Bi bi
Amy Fox (21:50)
Right.
Jeff Walter (21:52)
because the repetition builds the neural pathways, right? It’s the same it’s the same it’s the same thing. And it’s like I’m listening to you. What
Amy Fox (21:55)
Right. It’s right.
Jeff Walter (21:58)
I’m listening to you. I’m like, you’re doing the atomic habits thing. It’s like you start with one thing.
Amy Fox (22:01)
That’s totally
that’s well it’s funny because all all of us all three partners had read the book together at the same time
Jeff Walter (22:07)
Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Fox (22:08)
and we were completely hooked like this is a really interesting thing to integrate into what we’re doing. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (22:15)
Well it yeah,
and like it is a great book. My daughter recommended it to me. And then I had l on on some different podcasts than that, had l l heard things all about, you know, neuropathways and how they develop and atomic habits kind of touches on that, but I had
Amy Fox (22:29)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (22:29)
all this other s
research I’d done on it. I’m like, my gosh, this is what’s happening. And and then it’s really interesting because that’s what you’re doing with all the repetition. And I think about your your primary audience, it’s like that nightly checklist, that nightly
Amy Fox (22:43)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (22:44)
it’s it’s you’re you’re building those neuropathways. And it
Amy Fox (22:48)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (22:48)
it’d be really interesting. I the other thing like when we were talking about the over fifty folks
I would had the re you know, I asked the question about the always you know, did they always have a a decline you know, w ha was it declining or did they always
Amy Fox (23:01)
Just the cognizant, yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:03)
have the ability disability or was it a a a recent phenomena?
Amy Fox (23:06)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (23:07)
And I think we and and because I I was really cu it would be really interesting to see from and I’m not a medical professional, so I don’t know, but for folks that are experiencing cognitive decline.
You know, you could still build those new neuropathways. It’s just it just it’s harder, right? It’s harder than it was when beforehand. so it’s
Amy Fox (23:28)
Yeah, well,
in the healthcare space,
Jeff Walter (23:31)
That’s interesting.
Amy Fox (23:32)
the application is a little bit different for the aging population. We put together just kind of a beginning conversation with the AARP that we’re kind of developing a few ideas with.
If you just think about using the platform strictly as a safety mechanism,
Jeff Walter (23:51)
Yeah.
Amy Fox (23:51)
as a, you know, how to prevent falls, how to
Jeff Walter (23:55)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (23:55)
avoid scams, practicing proper hygiene, eating a healthy diet, like some of those just…
basic key practices that make a huge difference in how their future unfolds, right, and how much support is needed. So those are some of the…
applications I see for the future that could change how we age in place if I mean a lot of the Medicaid populations are looking at caregivers now right and how
Jeff Walter (24:31)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (24:32)
how are they able to better support
their family when it’s all falling on their shoulders and they’re not trained to do that, right? So
Jeff Walter (24:42)
well.
Amy Fox (24:43)
the platform could work very well in that type of setting as well where, you know, some of the healthcare providers are looking at it a little more critically and saying, we get the outcome from it. We can pick whatever content we want. We can create whatever content we want and we can deliver it really easily. I mean, we’ve seen some interesting
what I would call barriers to entry with the use of technology and online learning that
Jeff Walter (25:11)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Fox (25:13)
I think will eventually kind of fall to the edges. But what we’ve seen largely is that the learner themselves are very interested in learning the material. Many times the barrier is the support staff saying, no, we’re not going to do that right now. Or the parents saying, I don’t want you on your computer right now.
you know, challenges with login or things like that. And so, you know, those are some of the larger, larger challenges. Like if you can’t get on the platform, you’re not even going to be able to use the knowledge. So, yeah.
Jeff Walter (25:55)
Right.
Yeah. Well, you know, earlier and earlier you had mentioned about the daily and it reminded me of a a firm I had interviewed, their name escapes me right now, but they were doing micro learning for auto repair. And their whole thing was a daily their their platform was a daily three to five questions.
And they they kinda they did they they did the assessment and then if you got the question wrong, they gave you the you know the micro learning to like, here’s why you got that wrong, right? Here’s the right answer.
Amy Fox (26:25)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Jeff Walter (26:29)
And what was fascinating in talking to them is it kind of when you when you were talking about the addiction program that you were putting
Amy Fox (26:35)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (26:36)
out, it it it triggered me. It’s they were doing something very similar, but it wasn’t random. They were consciously
serving up specific questions for specific
Amy Fox (26:48)
you
Jeff Walter (26:49)
people. It the the questions that were that were served up on a daily basis were unique to the individual based on their past answers and their their gaps of knowledge. And and and they
Amy Fox (26:58)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Jeff Walter (27:02)
found it to be their their clients have found it to be exceedingly effective. Like now like you said, it’s like, look, this is part of a whole ecosystem of learning and you know development.
it’s it’s not a it’s not a silver bullet, but they found it to be exceedingly beneficial.
Amy Fox (27:17)
Right, right, and I think, yeah,
and that was kind of one of my hesitations in kind of putting our toe in the water in the addiction space was.
you you brought it up earlier. There’s a whole highway of issues coming into
Jeff Walter (27:34)
Right.
Amy Fox (27:34)
what’s involved with addiction, right? You’ve got trauma, you’ve got lifestyle, you’ve got the social determinants of health, you’ve got all these different myriad complex issues, and then you throw in the hormones of a teenager on top of it. And so we decided, I know,
Jeff Walter (27:52)
Amazing we all survived.
Amy Fox (27:56)
I decided that
if we were going
Jeff Walter (27:57)
my gosh.
Amy Fox (27:58)
to go into this space, which we kicked off end of August, and it’s really fascinating to see the outcomes, if we were going to go into this space, there was only one thing that I wanted to focus on, on the behavior side, and that was…
I just want them to pause before they make a decision. So we name the project, project reset. And essentially, it’s it’s like the thinking physically that I think of it’s like almost like taking a deep breath and counting to 10 and then reassessing again.
So if there was anything that we could focus on that everybody could use help with because the staff had said, you know, anger management issues, we’ve got self harm, we’ve got people hurting themselves, we’ve got, you know, sometimes police coming because of fights and altercations, etc, etc. And so we basically set the program up.
to focus on that moment of pause before you take whatever step you’re going to take next. And so I think what we’re going to discover, we’re running this pilot for six months, I think what we’re going to discover is that there’s going to be certain content that’s hugely important for us to develop further.
and they’re tracking the outcomes to the number of incidents that they have on site every day, which there’s not a direct correlation because we’re only being used for about an hour every day, but we’re being used every day. day,
Jeff Walter (29:36)
Right. Right.
Amy Fox (29:38)
yeah. And you know, then we had, separately we asked them,
as part of the baseline to include a team building project that would allow the learners to work together on something creatively. they now have a cooking class that they pull from our healthy cooking basics that they do once a week, and they make dinner for each other.
So
Jeff Walter (30:03)
Cool.
Amy Fox (30:04)
yeah, we’ve seen some interesting results with that on other projects over the years. yeah, I’ll be, I would love to tell you what we know when we get done with this, because it’s, yeah,
Jeff Walter (30:15)
Yeah, that’d be great. What
Amy Fox (30:18)
it’s been really interesting.
Jeff Walter (30:20)
Well, you know, it it I mean the other interesting and one of the reasons I want to talk to you and explore all these things is you you’re focused on a population that has their own challenges, addiction,
Amy Fox (30:31)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (30:32)
cognitive impairment, but
Amy Fox (30:34)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (30:35)
it’s the same human machine, right?
Amy Fox (30:37)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (30:38)
It’s the same human organism and it
And if and those techniques can be applied like successful techniques in in that population can be applied to the population as a whole and be very effective. And the
Amy Fox (30:51)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (30:52)
and the and that’s why no that’s why I was really interested in talking and getting into these different how exactly are you doing these things because because a lot of times the opposite is not true, right? because you you do have
Amy Fox (31:03)
Yeah, you can’t turn it
the other way.
Jeff Walter (31:04)
You can’t turn it the other way and say, hey, this is really effective
with the pop with the general population. And you have
Amy Fox (31:09)
Mm-hmm
Jeff Walter (31:09)
these the these other populations that have these challenges. And and and what works over here with the general pop doesn’t work there. But it’s the same humans, and if you go the other way, it can be exceedingly popular. Like like the habit building. Like the like like what I
Amy Fox (31:23)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (31:25)
was saying with the auto repair. It’s like they
Amy Fox (31:27)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (31:27)
the hi hi his clients, they’re they’re
like their productive like you know their productivity and knowledge, like they’re just they’re got they’re they’re they’re they’re folks are just much, much better at preparing things right the first time and and
Amy Fox (31:40)
Yeah. Mm hmm.
Jeff Walter (31:43)
like and it’s like three to five minutes a day.
Amy Fox (31:47)
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that’s what’s so fascinating to me, right?
Like we have three grants that we’ve been invited to fast track on with NIH. And one of them is with physical exercise.
how we can create kind of a practice to transition. So you learn how to do a push-up, well now you’re gonna take a exercise class, right?
Jeff Walter (32:10)
Right, right.
Amy Fox (32:11)
We’ve got one that we’re submitting with addiction, and then we’ve got another that we’re submitting with mental health, what we’re calling emotional wellness.
Jeff Walter (32:21)
All of them.
Amy Fox (32:22)
And all of them,
We’re invited to fast track because of the results initially that we’ve received with our initial population. So it’ll be interesting to see whether those move forward as well over the next three years with them.
Jeff Walter (32:37)
Well, I my my next question is gonna be what’s what’s the future hold? And you already you you jumped right on that and hopefully we see these things. That’s very exciting, say
Amy Fox (32:42)
Yeah, well, that was easy. Yeah, I that one. I think I
know we want to I know we want to start getting more serious on the AI piece, which we’ve been, you know, kind of waiting and watching on before we start iterating with that. And I think, you know, ultimately, what we’re going to end up doing is we’re a small house.
is finding some larger partners that we’ll be working through to kind of reach the populations more easily with a larger team as well. So it’s exciting. We’re at a good point where we’re ready to be phase two now. We’re done with phase one.
Jeff Walter (33:28)
Well that that
that that’s
I mean you’re you guys are doing great work and you’re finding like you’re you’re you’re making a difference, especially in a set of learner populations that sh struggle. And
Amy Fox (33:41)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (33:42)
so kudos to you and your team and and congratulations on four
Amy Fox (33:45)
Well, thank you.
Jeff Walter (33:46)
years. so i i we’re coming close on time here. So if so Amy if if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, want to learn more about Learning Queue and what you’re doing, what what’s the best way to get a hold of you or Learning Cue in general?
Amy Fox (34:00)
So probably my email, afoxatlearningq.org, and then the website has almost everything on that, learningq.org. It has all of our certifications, it has our upcoming grants where we’re looking for pilot populations, it’s got all of our white papers with some of the results.
of our projects and programs and it’s also got kind of a nice sampling of some of the topics where you can actually watch a video and see what it’s like if it’s appealing to you or not.
Jeff Walter (34:29)
Very cute.
And and Amy, I’d say as you I mean you got a lot of irons in the fire, some really good things going on, especially with the teen addiction. as you as you get results about that and if you want to share them, I’d love to have you back on and and we can talk about those ’cause it’s Yeah, ca
Amy Fox (34:43)
Thank you, I would like that. That would be terrific.
Jeff Walter (34:45)
Well, b because I think so much what we do in in in this industry in the learning development, it it’s it’s all about the input and not the output, but we’re all doing this for s for output. So anything you could give us back on, hey, we did this, these are this is the impact we had, and you know, as we
Amy Fox (35:02)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (35:03)
as we detangled it, this is what really moved the needle.
Amy Fox (35:06)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (35:07)
you know, those insights are just I would love to chat about them, so I appr appreciate it. Yeah.
Amy Fox (35:09)
Super important. Well, that’s great. You ask very good questions, Jeff,
and you’ve got a genuine interest. So
Jeff Walter (35:15)
Thank you.
Amy Fox (35:17)
you make it easy to chat. Thank you.
Jeff Walter (35:19)
Thank you.
Thank you. Well, I I I I’m a true believer in education and I really think it does change lives.
Amy Fox (35:28)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (35:29)
i if it’s if it’s done well. and and I think there’s a lot of great education going on at all levels, you know, from you know, pre K to you know age eighty five and above.
Amy Fox (35:43)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (35:44)
so and that’s and I just but I really do think it ch it changes people’s lives and and you’re doing great work and so thank you for sharing your time with us.
Amy Fox (35:52)
Well, thank you so much.
Jeff Walter (35:53)
And everybody out there, thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you next time. Take care.
Amy Fox (35:59)
Bye bye.