ASE Test Prep:

Jeff Walter (00:00)

Hello, my name is Jeff Walter and welcome back to the training impact podcast. My guest today is Carl Borsani, the president and CEO of ASC test prep. Carl, welcome to the program.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(00:14)

Thanks, Jeff, for having me.

 

Jeff Walter (00:15)

Yeah. And Carl, why don’t you tell people, a lot of folks probably don’t know what S ASEE means or stands for. So why don’t you tell them a little bit about that and then, and also how you came to be president and CEO of S ASEE test.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(00:27)

So ASE, it’s an acronym for Automotive Service Excellence. just the best way to kind of get a general understanding is when you take your car to get repaired, they have this sign that is a blue gear looking thing that says we’re ASE certified.

 

That means that they’re certified to do specific types of repairs on vehicles required to meet warranty standards and requirements. Basically, they’re telling you, our technicians are the best technicians out there because they’re trained and they hold certifications. So.

 

Jeff Walter (01:00)

And so

 

the AAC is an industry wide certification. Certainly you can, it’s not a regulatory certification, right? It’s, you know, okay.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(01:08)

Correct. It’s an

 

industry standard that a lot of manufacturers choose to follow for their own brands. Toyota, types of things. ⁓

 

Jeff Walter (01:18)

And

 

so as a consumer, you uh, you’d be best served by going to an ASCE certified service center. Then, you know, you’re going to get a certain level of quality of care as a war. Okay. So that’s the ASC. Where does a, you know, where does ASC test prep come in and, and how did you end up a president CEO of ASC test

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(01:31)

Absolutely, yeah.

 

So where it comes in and where it’s important is because these ASC certification tests, if you could imagine taking the bar exam as a lawyer, but taking it nine times to pass nine different certifications or eight different certifications. So for example, when you’re talking about a vehicle systems, there are

 

Several certifications that deal with, there’s one that deals with suspension and steering, one that deals with brakes, one that deals with air conditioning systems.

 

electronics and electronic systems is another. So those are specific tests that are required for you to hold a certification in that particular area. So you may have heard the term master certified technician. ⁓ So a master certified technician holds eight certifications.

 

Jeff Walter (02:29)

Mm-hmm.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(02:35)

and those eight certifications basically cover bumper to bumper of a vehicle systems. Okay, so you’re going to make sure that that one person knows everything about everything they need to know to repair and diagnose properly and take care of the vehicle.

 

Jeff Walter (02:51)

And hell, so bumper to bumper and the eight certification tests, how long does that usually, how long would that take somebody to become, how long does it usually take to become a master tech? So that sounds like a lot.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(03:02)

So you’re talking years. Yeah, you’re talking years of

 

experience in order to gain that level because

 

A certification test as I compared it to a bar exam, I’m not a lawyer, but just comparatively, they’re very difficult tests to pass. And so if you’re a master certified technician, that means you’ve taken the time to learn these other systems and how to pass all these different tests required to be that master certified technician. ASC test prep was born out of the design

 

and the need for them to understand how to pass those tests. then, so how do I pass these tests? Well, you pass these tests by a company like ASC Test Prep, helping you by delivering practice test material to you in the form of practice tests and similar type information so that you can understand what is expected to, what to expect when you come to that test, all the details about

 

Jeff Walter (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(04:02)

what you have to know in order to be able to pass these tests. Because those tests, the technician has to spend money to take a test, okay? If they fail that test, they don’t get their money back.

 

They lost that money. Now they have to wait 30 days before they can retake that test and then they have to pay again. So ASC test prep came to be by the need to pass this test the first time and not have to keep retaking that test. So I’m like the insurance policy to them to prepare and know they’re ready to take that test before they walk in the test taking door.

 

Jeff Walter (04:40)

And so, and then how did you end up as president and CEO?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(04:45)

So

 

I’m a car guy by heart, okay? I just am, I’ve always been. And so…

 

Jeff Walter (04:47)

Okay.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(04:51)

Just like this industry, I’ve learned it’s very tight knit and very small. Once you’ve become privy to people in this industry, now people get to know you and people start talking. And I’m kind of an entrepreneurial guy anyhow. And so I was approached by the owner at the time of ASC Test Prep who said,

 

I like your ideas, I like the way you think, and I think that you could do really well with this business. Would you be interested in buying it from me and maybe doing more with it than I could ever do? And so I decided to do it, and here we are 15 years later, roughly, yeah.

 

Jeff Walter (05:32)

congratulations.

 

Congratulations on the acquisition. Well, both the acquisition and the longevity. 15 years, you’ve got to be doing something right because businesses don’t last that long if they’re not adding value. You know, so congratulations. so and prior to the AC, prior to that acquisition, you said you’ve always been a car guy. So what were you doing before that?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(05:43)

Yeah.

 

Well, okay, my background is marketing.

 

I’ve always been interested in how to reach people, how to talk to people and how all that works. so my, but the car guy aspect of it was, just a hobby. mean, I like classic cars. like restoring old cars. I like wrenching on cars and just that kind of a guy. so, again, it’s just, once you, once you become kind of married to that side of the world, and then you start meeting people, then you, then your, your contacts become.

 

Jeff Walter (05:59)

Uh-huh.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(06:23)

more than just a friend or a contact. Now it’s now I’m a conduit into this other area that I never thought I could get into. And so that’s really it just was timing and chance and everything just kind of worked together to just find this opportunity and decide to take advantage of it.

 

Jeff Walter (06:41)

All right. So, so now with ASC test prep, so you’re prepping service technicians for taking the ASC exams to get certified eight different exams. Are they coming to you as individuals or, you know, you had mentioned when we started the seal on a service center, you know, a service center being certified, I assume first, well, how does it, well, I got, there were three questions in there, so pardon me. Let’s start with the first one.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(07:09)

Right,

 

right.

 

Jeff Walter (07:09)

So is it the individual service tech that’s coming to you and saying, hey, you know, just like the individual want to be lawyer is going, hey, hey, I need help. I want to get prepped for the bar. know, I got a bar and I got one of these prep schools for them. Is it the individual or is it, or is it organization or both or, know,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(07:26)

Right.

 

So today it’s both, it’s all of the above. It started with individuals and the business was, it was all about…

 

Jeff Walter (07:35)

Okay. Okay.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(07:40)

I’m gonna help you pass this one test as a professional technician and now you can go and take your certification test. So over the years, shops and groups started coming to me saying, okay, I have 12 guys that need to be certified. Can you offer some sort of a package deal?

 

And so we decided at that point, okay, then we’re very good at listening to the market. What does the market want? How do they need this? And so we react accordingly. We work really hard on understanding that. And so we develop group packages. And so now we can sell group plans to shops, fleet management departments, fleet service departments.

 

Having access is one part of that, but data is the other side of this, because when you hand somebody a tool, you need to know that they’re using the tool properly, or are they even using the tool? So you’re giving them access to this service that you expect them to do what you ask them to do, which is work on this, learn this, then at the end of the day, you’re going to go take an ASC certification test and pass, and that’s great for the shop, because we need you to be certified.

 

Jeff Walter (08:50)

So why does the shop need them to be certified? I mean, it sounds like, you know, other than they want good technicians.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(08:51)

So.

 

So.

 

The technician side of it is having a skilled technician is one thing. But if you’re going to, as a shop, do warranty repair work on a vehicle, I’m talking like a vehicle that is within the factory warranty period of five years maybe. And if the air conditioning system fails on that vehicle and it needs repair. So a lot of people are…

 

are adverse to taking the car back to a dealer. They’re just not comfortable. They have their own shops that they like to take their vehicles to to get repaired. In order for that shop to not only understand how to do the repair, okay, they need the knowledge to do that repair, but in order for them to get reimbursed by the factory for that repair.

 

they have to hold a certification in the area in which that repair fits under. So if it’s an air conditioning repair, there’s an A7 area, which is heating and air conditioning of a vehicle. If they hold that certification, now they can submit that claim back to the factory and they’ll get reimbursed for that repair.

 

Jeff Walter (09:59)

okay. so, and so when you say they, how many, like take the ACE air conditioning there, how many certified techs does a shop have to have to be? Is it just one, like is it one or?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(10:12)

If you’re an air conditioning repair shop only, you got to have one guy with one certification with that one certification at least.

 

Jeff Walter (10:15)

Yeah.

 

Okay, so

 

does that make you an AAC certified shop?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(10:25)

Yeah,

 

you can claim if you hold, if you have a technician there that is, that holds any certification, you can hang the banner outside that says we’re ASC certified. Okay. You don’t have to promote what areas you’re ASC certified. Okay. But if you’re a general automotive repair shop, meaning you fix just about anything that comes in the door, you’re probably going to want to be certified in every one of those areas of potential vehicle repairs you can get.

 

Jeff Walter (10:36)

Okay.

 

Right.

 

Right, right. that could, well that could, and I didn’t know that you could get warranty work done outside of the dealer network. That’s, you know, I’ve only been in the industry for a couple of decades. So I’m a newbie. and, but, that, that’s interesting. I I didn’t know that. So, so basically the, you know, GM or Ford, Toyota, you know, if, if you, you know, if you went to Gary’s, service center down the road, cause you like Gary, you trust Gary, you’ve taken all your vehicles to Gary.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(11:01)

A lot of people don’t.

 

and

 

Jeff Walter (11:23)

and he just bought a new, a new vehicle and was having a little problem. As long as Gary was ASC certified in that domain, he could, that shop could do the repair, the warranty repair and submit it to GM or Toyota and get reimbursed on, like the dealers do. Same thing. Fascinating. did, that’s, that’s really cool. I didn’t know that. I have to remember that. Cause I,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(11:32)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Yeah,

 

yeah, people just don’t know that because you’re not the dealer is not going to tell you that dealer wants that work

 

Jeff Walter (11:55)

That’s right. Yes,

 

that’s right. Here, buy this car from us and when you need service, go anywhere you want. No, so, okay, so you got the, and then obviously if you’re a general repair shop, an independent service center, you would want at least one person that held, you’d want somebody that had, I’m gonna say this backwards, you’d want at least one person that holds each of the certifications so that you,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(12:02)

Right.

 

at least one

 

person or one person to hold all the certifications and that will be your master certified technician.

 

Jeff Walter (12:26)

Right. Right.

 

But you want to have your bases covered and all so that you can work on all. So then when a client comes to you and says, you know, when a larger client says, hey, I got 12 people or 20 people that need to get certified, whether at the dealer or the independent, they’re looking at that and that, you know, a they want to increase the skill set of their people, you know, make sure that they’re performing at a certain level.

 

But B, they’re also looking to make sure that they can be eligible for that warranty work.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(12:54)

Yeah, I think that’s the driving factor more so is just making sure their bases are covered. And that’s the way it’s been over the years. but honestly, I see a shift happening with that desire. And that desire has shifted more to how can I hang on to my good technicians? Because the good technicians who are feeling lost or unchallenged or

 

Jeff Walter (13:00)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(13:21)

neglected will easily jump to another shop. Because there’s a huge shortage of skilled automotive technicians across the country. There has been for decades or better. And so we’re starting to see the automotive education side get have more enrollment. So that void should start minimizing as the years roll on here. But in order for that shop to

 

to try and do what they can to hang on to that technician. need to make them feel like we care about their development. We are going to offer a training program that includes ASC certification training. We’re not going to make you pay for your own ASC training. And we’re going to just help you be the best technician that you can be. And those technicians tend to stick around long.

 

Jeff Walter (14:13)

So you’re seeing that as a, that you’re almost getting from the employer side, getting dual bang for the buck. One is you’re, by including it as part of the development program of your staff, you’re getting higher retention. At the same time, you’re getting a higher caliber tech. Is that the idea?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(14:32)

Yes, you are. You’re building a more higher caliber, I guess is a good term, but more loyal technician. Okay.

 

Jeff Walter (14:39)

Right. Yeah.

 

You know, it’s interesting. I was talking to Ken Benson, who recently retired from the AFC and we were talking about that culture in the, in the shop and how it’s, it’s, it’s almost, it seems like there’s a generational shift going on in terms of, you know, the texts used to be viewed more as kind of interchangeable. ⁓ you know, like, you’re, like every man for himself and, know,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(14:59)

Mmm.

 

Jeff Walter (15:04)

Like you’re here today, gone tomorrow type thing, and that’s fine. I’ll go, I’ll go, I’ll go find another, you know, widget to plug in and do my repairs. Kind of old, you know, which, you know, he was saying, I don’t want to put words in Ken’s mouth, but, uh, you know, uh, you know, it was kind of an old, uh, I think kind of more of an old school type of approach to management. And we’re talking about how that’s shifting to the types of it’s, it’s interesting to hear you say that. Cause we were talking about the shift. It’s almost like a generational shift.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(15:11)

Right. Right.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Jeff Walter (15:32)

where it’s more like, okay, these are skilled employees. They are highly valuable. They’re in short supply. And, and I can, I can have a better, more profitable growing business if they stay with me. So I’m going to start to create the environment that, makes it conducive for them to stay. And it was really interesting because on some of the surveys,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(15:51)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (15:57)

that they’ve done, you know, it wasn’t even pay. was more of that, you know, approach to being part of the team, you know, having the, the, the, the shop invest in them, you know, and, creates the loyalty because if you feel more of a kindred spirit, then then you’re just, you know, a replaceable, cog in the machine type of thing.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(16:05)

Mm-hmm.

 

The word

 

family is what I hear is they’re trying to create a family feel for their employees. You’re not going to jump ship on your family one day because you found a new family. It doesn’t work that way.

 

Jeff Walter (16:22)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah, yeah. Well,

 

and you don’t necessarily do it for an extra nickel, right? know, like, you know, somebody pays, you know, if it’s a material change in lifestyle, that’s one thing, but if it’s an extra nickel, you know, so that’s really interesting. So, and then the other thing you said that was interesting, sorry to, you know, was that you said the schools have seen an uptick. that, have you, you’ve seen that or?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(16:37)

Right.

 

Yeah, we see that with the instructors. I speak to instructors constantly because of the school side that we offer products on that side of business. so and we can see it in the numbers in what we sell to the schools. We’re selling numbers that we see how many students they’re purchasing access for.

 

Jeff Walter (17:11)

Okay.

 

Right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(17:18)

And

 

so we can see those numbers increasing over the years. That means enrollment is increasing and they’re verifying that to me verbally that they’re starting to see the enrollment come back to where it was maybe 12, 15 years ago.

 

Jeff Walter (17:33)

Wow, wow, that’s awesome. Any idea what the root cause of that is?

 

Or any hypotheses? I’m like, I won’t tie you down to, you know, quantifiable, verifiable, just, know, curious. Cause that’s been, that’s been an elusive thing for, you know, decade plus, like you said.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(17:38)

They are not? Yeah, I hear. Yeah, I see.

 

Yeah.

 

I think part of it, and this is just my gut from being as knee deep into this as I am, I think part of it is the new technology.

 

in vehicles that’s coming out over the, know, and we’re making these huge advancements in the last 10 years in cool things that are getting, you know, added to vehicles and the hybrid technologies, all the new technologies. I think that’s more interesting to the younger generation now than it used to be when the vehicles were pretty much the same vehicle for a 20 year span, you know, not a lot of changes.

 

So that’s just my gut, because I think kids are technology oriented anyhow. This just kind of fits right in with that.

 

Jeff Walter (18:39)

yeah. Well, that kind of like, you know, that kind of ties into what the folks have mentioned to me is, you know, it’s gone from being an internal combustion engine with wheels to a computer on wheels, or an iPhone on wheels, know, completely different set of technology. And it’s, and especially when you, know, and that doesn’t even bring in the EVs and the hybrids, just your

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(18:52)

Yeah. Right.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (19:04)

Still your plain old gas engine car or diesel has so much IT crammed in there now that it’s really a rolling device.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(19:14)

Well, and the technology required to diagnose these vehicles now is so substantial that your average shade tree mechanic doesn’t have a prayer anymore on the vehicle. As a matter of fact, I mean,

 

Jeff Walter (19:21)

Hmm.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(19:29)

I know that Hyundai now is producing vehicles, and I Kia is also right with them, that the average shape-treatment mechanic, no matter how adept you are at certain repairs, you can’t even put your own brake pads on anymore. Because you have to have a computer interface that can tell that brake caliper to retract. You can’t make it retract anymore.

 

You can’t force it to retract anymore like you used to be able to do with put brake pads on your car.

 

Jeff Walter (19:58)

Yeah,

 

so you can’t mechanically through some type of mechanical process make it retract. You have to electronically trigger it to retract and therefore you have to have the interface. Inter wow. And that’s just a break job.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(20:03)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, you have to tell it. Yeah.

 

And I think that’s just

 

a great deal. So now, pretty soon, what’s going to be left that’s serviceable by your average person that is not a trained mechanic?

 

Jeff Walter (20:24)

All right.

 

Yeah, it, well, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating because you got that. then that combines. I think that goes hand in hand with the improvement in reliability. Um, you know, and it’s actually just yesterday I had the, I was, over someone’s house and they happened to have a model T in their garage and, I’m looking at this thing and I’m like,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(20:49)

Okay.

 

Jeff Walter (20:53)

my God, this thing is so simple. I mean, it’s a, I, I, I’ve never seen one up close and personal before, right? And it just happened to be a car guy and just happened to have it just, you know, he’s a collector and, and I’m looking at this thing. I’m like, but to your point, it’s like,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(20:57)

Right.

 

Yeah.

 

Jeff Walter (21:11)

But then when you look at the reliability, I mean, it’s, you know, it’s an amazing historical thing, right? But, but then when you look at, well, today I’ve got something that’s orders of magnitude more sophisticated actually has an enclosed feature has heat and air conditioning and all these power windows and all the electronics and GPS and all that kind of stuff. And we’ll go a hundred thousand miles without blinking an eye. Right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(21:29)

you

 

Right.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (21:37)

I mean, for the most

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(21:37)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (21:38)

part, you know, maybe you got to throw some tires on, change the oil regularly. But other than that, it’s, you know, most cars pretty darn reliable. Whereas back then it’s like, well, you go 500 miles. Yeah. And it was funny because it talking to him. like, takes it for a ride. like, yeah, well, I mean, a buddy rode, you know, we took this trip and they, went a couple, like 500 miles or something like that. It’s like, yeah, we had to stop because this thing needed to get adjusted. So that was half a day fooling around with that. And then we went another 200 miles and we had to stop and adjust this.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(21:40)

Right. Right.

 

Right.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (22:06)

I

 

was like, my lord.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(22:09)

Well, and you know, if you follow the collector car market like I do.

 

you watch trends, you see what people are paying attention to. And so our generation that were paying attention to the 57 Chevys and all those, I mean, that market is, I mean, sad to say that dying off. And so now the younger market, the younger crowd that’s in that market, they want eighties and nineties cars. That’s old to them. That’s what speaks to them.

 

Jeff Walter (22:24)

Mm-hmm.

 

All

 

right

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(22:40)

And

 

so it’s funny that the car value market just shifts based on who’s buying them, of course.

 

Jeff Walter (22:47)

Yeah, right.

 

But it’s interesting, going, which you were saying with the, I think it was Hyundai, said with the brakes. Yeah, Hyundai. Yeah, it’s like, I’m just in my brain. was like, I never thought of it this way. But when you, when you said that, I’m like, huh. Because at the same time as yesterday, I was talking to a gentleman who was on the engineering side and how they used to etch all everything in

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(22:55)

Yeah, 100.

 

Jeff Walter (23:14)

you know, way back in the day and aluminum sheets, because, know, the, to get the precision, but now that the precision of because paper and other things would, you know, expand and shrink with heat and moisture and all that kind of stuff. But then, you know, now that’s not, you can’t, you know, it’s like, you got to even be more precise than that because we’re down to like microns of, you know, tolerance on things. And, and then.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(23:38)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (23:41)

all that goes into having this amazing thing that goes 100,000 miles without having to worry about it. You can drive across country without having to think about anything. it kind of, as I’m listening to you, I never thought of that going hand in hand with the sophistication required to actually repair and maintain because it gets so much more complicated. All right, well anyway, but then you also mentioned another

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(23:46)

Right.

 

Right. Right.

 

Jeff Walter (24:05)

client for the services, which are the vocational shops and schools and the secondary, assume the secondary market. And that kind of makes sense because they want to prep their students to be able to be certified when they come out of the school, I imagine. So, know, so that’s, and there you get the other group, you know, hey, we’ve got 20 people going through this. We’d like to prepare them, you know, this class.

 

So, okay, so now, okay, so we’ve got this big important certification and there are a lot of industries that have certifications and there’s lots of organizations out there trying to, there are a lot of students I should say, trying to prepare for certifications, not only in the automotive sector, but across the board, you know, not only professionals, not only, what’s it called, legally.

 

necessary things like a bar exam or medical. But you also have CPAs, same thing. It’s not legally regulatory, it’s an industry. You’ve got tons of industries that have very important professional certifications. now let’s tackle the problem.

 

How does one prepare for an industry, a very important, very sophisticated industry certification? And how do you, as an, as a, as a organization helping students prepare, what do you guys do to help them prepare? Like, how does that happen? then like, here’s a stack of books. Good luck.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(25:36)

So the students get introduced to ASC certification as part of the educational process. Most of your secondary and post-secondary programs will require the students to pass what’s called an ASC student certification at the end of the program. And then that is that’s a requirement that they can get this certification that then they can take to

 

Jeff Walter (25:53)

Okay.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(26:01)

their first job opportunity and say, look, I passed this. I got a certification in this ASC area. Can you give me a job? Can you hire me? And so since that’s become part of the education process now, the students have to understand what is ASC certification.

 

How do I pass that test at the end or the multiple tests? They can take up to eight certification tests at the end of the program. So how do I pass these? Well, that’s where my automotive student testing product comes in. The instructors are challenged and tasked with teaching and assessing their students along the way.

 

That’s everything they do is about I’m teaching you and I’m assessing. Do you understand? And now we’re going to get to the next topic and the next topic. What do you understand? And so I have a program that is meant to give the instructors access and their students access to practice tests and quizzes following ASE guidelines, following specific ASE type content. So if they’re teaching

 

breaks and they’re teaching all about electronic brake systems, they can quiz their students on electronic braking systems maybe before they start to benchmark a level of understanding who understands anything about this, teach them and then test them during and then after.

 

The beauty is not all students are great test takers. That’s a skill that is learned. And so by the instructor offering them and assigning them to take tests along the way to validate their understanding and assess their education.

 

Jeff Walter (27:32)

Alright.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(27:46)

at the end of the program when it’s time to go take an ASC student certification test, they’re not going to be intimidated because now they’re going to be well trained on how to take these tests without being intimidated, being able to understand the nuances and the kind of questions they’re asking. at the end of the program, what I’m told by these programs that use us is their test scores are higher and their passing rates

 

are higher and they’re getting more ASC student certifications at the end of the program because of using my system throughout the program.

 

Jeff Walter (28:21)

And what makes the system different from, if I go back, I’ve been around a block a few times, way back in the day, getting just a manual book of practice exams with the key in the back and your grade, like, how do we take that to the next, how do you take that to the next level?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(28:41)

Okay.

 

Jeff Walter (28:45)

not.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(28:46)

Yeah, I get it. So the challenge is you need to meet the students where they are. So when you’re meeting them where they are, which is they all carry a device with them, a smartphone. I always joke that they can’t really walk or breathe without their smartphone. It’s part of their being. And so you’re going to let them leverage that technology and use that.

 

to go through this training material and take these tests and quizzes that the instructors are assigning to them, to use that tool as their leverage to doing something they already enjoy doing. And this becomes like a game to them.

 

on their phone when they’re working through this material. It challenges them because it’s making them pay attention. For example, if they take a 10 question quiz on electronic braking systems and the instructor assigns them to do that again tomorrow, when they start that quiz, it’s going to be a whole different set of questions. It’s a random pool every time. the nice thing is for the students is it will

 

Jeff Walter (29:49)

Okay.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(29:56)

challenge them in a way that will show them that they’re correct or incorrect when they answer one of these questions. But then they’re going to get a full explanation for why they may be correct or why they may be incorrect so that they can understand and it’s their time to study in this particular instance why this particular answer is correct and why these other three choices were not correct. So that way then they

 

read that and then move on to the next question. It’s not something like a summary at the end of the test where they go through and try and read this and understand it. It’s when they got the information delivered to them, then they’re going to learn it. Then they’re going to move on to the next one.

 

Jeff Walter (30:35)

So, so, So, you know, I, so for a particular topic, have a bank of questions. So every time I take the, the quiz on that topic, I’m getting a new, a fresh new set. So if I got a, you know, 60, six out of 10, right yesterday, let’s say on a particular topic, I get another 10 questions today or 20 or whatever, whatever the case is, but I’m getting,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(30:55)

Mm-hmm.

 

Jeff Walter (31:02)

but I’m getting a new set. I’m not like just remembering that, that was the answer to that was C, you know, blue. getting, I’m getting, so I’ve got the bank, I’m getting it served up. So it’s novel and new and I have to actually understand the concept behind it, not just memorize the question and answer, but then also the, the practice test.

 

becomes a study tool because you sit there and go, okay, I can examine.

 

why this, even the ones I got right, you sometimes I just say C because I don’t know. Right. And, and then I can see why, why it’s right. But then also more importantly, I can see when I selected a different answer that I thought was right, why it’s wrong. I got, and so, so, so then that becomes, so the questions and answers and distractors become their own study guide basically. Right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(31:43)

Right. Right.

 

Right, because

 

generally those questions that are incorrect answers are going to be correct somewhere else in that area, so they’re going to need to pay attention to that. Because they’re going to see that. Right. Right.

 

Jeff Walter (32:01)

Right, right. If it’s a good distractor, if it’s a good distractor. Yeah.

 

So, well, so that goes to the next question. This is a, it is something that a lot of my clients struggle with. you usually, you know, uh, most of our clients are trying to train partners on how to sell and service their, their products. And, um, and, and I think we as an industry as a whole do this pretty, have this challenge as well. Um, so how.

 

It’s creating the assessment that is really difficult. Like to ask, to come up with that pool of questions and then come up with a set of distractors that are not pejorative, right? That are actually like, it could be A or it could be C. know, like, you know, so how, like, like, how do you, how do you do that? Like, because that’s really hard.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(32:42)

All

 

Jeff Walter (32:54)

Like I’ve seen my clients struggle with that. Right. And you usually end up with pretty good training material because you know, Hey, I know what we’re, I know what we’re doing here. Right. Yeah. I know I, I, I’m trying to teach somebody how to change breaks. I know the process and I can lay it down and I can put some, but then trying to assess them on wonder or not they understand how to change breaks. Well, now I’ve got to come up with a whole slew of questions, especially if it’s a pool, right. Cause I’m, I’m going to

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(33:03)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (33:22)

have an overabundance of questions. And then to get into why is this the right answer? Well, usually they can put that together. Why is this the wrong answer? What wrong answers do I put on there? So what process or what’s the secret to making that happen? Because that’s a non-trivial exercise.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(33:24)

Right.

 

You’re right, and that’s the challenge is making sure that it’s relevant and meaningful. And so what we do is we have been approached by instructors. That’s how this business even started, just to kind of, and I’ll circle back to this.

 

But the automotive student testing business started because school instructors came to me and they were, a lot of instructors were previously mechanics or technicians in their prior life. They’ve used the professional product and it’s, okay, we love what you’re doing here, but we need something for schools. What can you do?

 

So we sat down and we worked with these instructors constantly on and developing this product. We make sure that this is going to work for them the way they need it to work. And it’s going to meet all their requirements. We’re not shoving it down their throat. They’re telling us what they want and we’re making sure that we’re doing that. And so what we do then as part of that process is work with these instructors and, and okay, you’re going to be tasked with

 

with writing new questions, new distractors for these areas. And so we have professionals that are not only master certified technicians because that skill level is needed on track with them, but we also work with dozens of instructors throughout the country from time to time when we go through periods of question scrubbing and verification and validation. so these are all experts,

 

Jeff Walter (34:53)

Right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(35:09)

professionals with decades of experience who are working on a common goal of building the perfect little system of questions and material.

 

Jeff Walter (35:17)

Mm-hmm.

 

So, then, so if I, if I hear what you just said, the answer is not get a couple of people to go into the back office and figure it out. The, the, the, the answer is to build a network of folks throughout, throughout the industry that have achieved some level of expertise. Like you’re saying, well, I’ve got, there’s these people and they are master tax or they’re expert.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(35:30)

No.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (35:46)

in this field, or I’ve got these instructors and they’re experts at the other. have a lot of knowledge in this field. And then use that, that, that network to a create. then I think B you said vet the questions as well. Like, you know, and like, and then, and then that’s, and, and

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(36:02)

Yeah.

 

Jeff Walter (36:07)

Wow, how do you do that?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(36:08)

Again, it’s just a lot of, for example, if there’s a handful of people who are great at breaks, and so I’ll work with them on.

 

breaks questions and when it’s time for review. We never sit back and just let these questions just sit there forever and get stagnant. The industry shifts. We need to shift with the industry. maybe this one period of time, these four or five experts, subject matter experts, will be the ones to vet this round of questions.

 

Jeff Walter (36:25)

Right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(36:42)

Okay, this round of changes for A5 breaks. Okay. And so we’re going to get a new perspective then in order for them to be able to vet that properly. First off, they’re going to have to be brought up to speed on what the current standards are. Cause standards shift, standards.

 

Okay, so ASC sets that standard and we always match the ASC standard. So that way we’re all teaching to the same level. When we’re saying we’re ASC compliant, we’re ASC compliant. We’re teaching to their standard down to the term, down to the word. We’re making sure that what we’re teaching is what they need to know.

 

And so we’re making sure our experts are up to speed on what they’re going to look at. They’ll go ahead and vet it. They’ll say, OK, these questions are now gone. We’re going to replace those questions with these or part of the questions are now irrelevant. Some of the distractors are not so good. We’re going to fix those. And so we do that every other year. We go through this this suite of all the material. And that’s quite undertaking.

 

Jeff Walter (37:47)

That’s quite what I’m sorry. I was going to say undertake. Yeah, that’s it sounds like a massive effort.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(37:48)

Quite an undertaking because.

 

Well,

 

my student side has well over 7,000 questions in the test bank.

 

Jeff Walter (37:58)

Wow. That’s a big test bank. That’s, you know, you just triggered a thought in my head and it’s not for, you know, industry certification. Like I said, one of the biggest challenges is for a lot of clients that are trying to teach their partners how to sell and service their product is, is the assessment. I’m just sitting here going, huh, I wonder if you were able to, if you know, if you’re

 

you know, like if you were a franchise or, you had a bunch of franchisees out there and you’re trying to teach them how to, you know, sell or service, whatever it is your franchise is about.

 

And, and, because this, this assessment thing is always, it’s always difficult. and I just, just sitting there going, I wonder if you were able to do the, you know, foundational practitioner master level certification of, of people. And then when they got to that master level that, because I, a lot of clients,

 

have that type of thing like, Hey, you know, this is, this is your basics. This is your journeyman. This is your master. you know, they might just call it bronze, silver, gold, or some type of, but a lot of them have that. here’s, here’s somebody that really knows this, right? Whatever this is, relative to their business. And I never thought of this, but I was like, yeah, maybe the one way to, to help on the assessment side is you tap into those people.

 

Like once you’ve achieved that level of mastery in a subject within an, you know, is that you become part of a group. That’s like what you’re, what you’re talking about, right? It’s like you become an active member of the brand as a war. You’re not just on the receiving end of the certification. You’re now on the teaching side and part of the teaching is, know, give it, you know, submit, you know,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(39:41)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (39:52)

submit questions on X on this subject and build a test bank. Huh. That’s interesting. So how do you, you know, so how do you coordinate all that? Like, you know, like, like, is it a lot of emails flying back and forth or are you using Slack or like, like how do you, like, that’s a lot of information to zip around, zip around.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(40:16)

It is. It’s

 

just, know, honestly, it’s a dropbox sharing. It’s, you know, and it’s a lot of Zoom calls, a lot of phone calls, you know.

 

Jeff Walter (40:23)

Uh-huh.

 

Yeah.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(40:29)

Once you build this network, and that was the challenge, that was the biggest challenge along the way was building these relationships, building these bridges. Because it’s not just somebody that just wants to do this work for you for money. I don’t want those people to do the work for me. They need to be in this, especially for the student side of things. They need to be in this for the betterment of the student.

 

Jeff Walter (40:36)

Yeah.

 

Right, right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(40:53)

So there’s not just writing questions, vetting questions, there’s vetting questions and writing questions with a purpose. that’s where I’m with it.

 

Jeff Walter (41:02)

Right. Right.

 

Well, and that’s interesting because I’m just, you know, I never made that crossover in my head with, you know, say my, my typical client, you know, my day job as an LMS company.

 

of, of, cause usually the people that get to that gold level or whatever that top level is in their, in their cert program. ⁓ it’s to your point is they’re usually not getting there for, riches and rewards. It’s for a love of the subject material. And, and, and yes, there’s some riches and rewards that come with it. you know, there’s some incentives and all that kind of fun stuff, but, really.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(41:23)

Mm-hmm.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (41:39)

You know, you usually hit that middle level and be perfectly adequate as a professional, you know, you know, as a practitioner. ⁓ and, but, but then there are some people that are, you know, that just, they, they love the subject material and they want to, they want to become that expert. And, and it’s interesting cause this, cause I’ve always been a big believer in learn duty. If you really want to understand something, teach it.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(41:47)

Right.

 

Sure.

 

Jeff Walter (42:04)

Right. So I’ve been a big believer in learn, do teach that, you learn it and you do it and then you teach it. And then when you teach it, that’s, that’s, that’s where you’re really get to understand it. Yeah. And, um, and I’ve been thinking about ways in which to kind of institutionalize that for people running, you know, decent size programs. And, and, and there is that idea that they have of this, oh, this person is an expert. You know, here’s, you know, here’s

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(42:15)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (42:33)

You got to do this to onboard and then here’s your, your middle level practitioner, your, your solid producer, and then here’s your expert. So anyway, sorry to just go off on that, but I’m like, huh, you could tap into those experts and that becomes your network of folks where you’re vetting the assessments and the test bank. Cause that’s really hard. Like, like, I mean, I’m not, I’m not kidding.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(42:44)

Thank

 

It is, it is work. And

 

the word assessment, okay, let’s just take that word. Sure, it’s assessing based on the question, based on the responses. But where we work so well, and I think where we’re so…

 

well received in the schools is we encourage the instructors who are doing the assessing on their side, because they’re using material, but they have to then understand the data. So they’re making assessments on the student learning process based on data that they’re getting in reports that they can generate out of the system.

 

about test activity, all the granular details, how they’re doing, how long they’re taking to take a test, just all the details that are the tidbits that help them better understand the skill level of the student. So.

 

So then we know the, can spot the ones that really use it and that really are invested in this on their end. Some of them just get access to it because they want to plan and get the guys ready to take an ASC test at the end. That’s all. Some of them really, really get it and use this on a daily, weekly basis. And so those instructors, we, we solicit for, okay, tell us what we can do better.

 

Jeff Walter (43:55)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(44:15)

What about our system do you like and what don’t you like more so? Because we can then.

 

we can work on that. I want to make a system that is better for everybody, not just for some. So I think that’s what helps us with this, the growth pattern that we’re on and the satisfaction level that we’re on with everybody is just the fact that we’re open and honest and tell us and be mean to us, it doesn’t matter. Tell us what we can do better to serve you.

 

Jeff Walter (44:46)

Yeah. Well, and the other thing, I mean, and I hear what you’re saying because that first group that are using it, Hey, you’ve gone through the course. Now let’s spend a week, a couple of weeks prepping you for the test. Right. that’s one way of using it, but I’ve always been, I believe that assessment first based teaching or is, is a much better approach because with whatever limited time you have with the student.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(44:56)

Mm.

 

Jeff Walter (45:12)

You always have a finite amount of time with a student. student has a, or a better way of stating that is, a student has a finite amount of time to learn. Right? And I always thought it would, my belief was always the best thing to do is to initially assess the student, find out what they know, find out what they don’t know, and spend that finite amount of time focusing on what they don’t know.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(45:17)

Mm-hmm.

 

Right.

 

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (45:42)

And, and you can’t, but yet so much of education and training just in general K-12 university and all career vocational everything. So it starts with the student is a blank slate. I’m going to start from step one and I’m going to go to step a hundred and, and, and you spend all your time doing that. And half the time the student is bored.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(45:59)

you

 

Jeff Walter (46:08)

because you’re touching on things that they have an understanding about. And it just seemed like there’s so much, we can be so much, we can get so much more learning done if we knew where they started, right? And so like one of things you said early on was, well, and you just said, repeat again, well, the folks that are really using, the instructors that really use this tool are the ones that they go, hey, let’s see where you guys are at today. I get a picture of where the class is at today.

 

It is a class, so I can’t necessarily tailor it to the individual. You know, it’s not tutoring, it’s a class, right? But I can see where the class has got what they know, what they don’t know, and then I can adjust my delivery. Like, okay, I don’t really have to cover that subject much because these guys know that in spades. Let me touch on this and make sure they understand it full because they kind of sort of get it. And this other thing they know nothing about. So let me spend a lot of time focusing on that. And then it just seems in that finite time.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(46:42)

Right.

 

Jeff Walter (47:05)

the student can learn so much more than if you start with that blank slate, I’m going to teach this to you. And then there’s gotta be so much more gratifying as a student.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(47:17)

Well, and yes, it is more gratifying. I guarantee it is. The thing about the assessing the instructor for the students here is this system, the system will help the instructor who every term has quiet students, one, two, maybe three. They just won’t talk, okay?

 

And so you really aren’t sure what they get and what they don’t get. And then when you maybe figure that out, because you don’t have time to just focus your attention on everybody and their level of understanding without having some tools in your hand to be able to determine that.

 

And so this system, by virtue of the work they’re going to do, the benchmark testing and the checkpoints along the way and the homework, you’re going to see right away in the data who gets it and who doesn’t get it. You can spot those quiet ones before it becomes such a problem that they’re so far behind that now they can’t get caught up. You don’t have enough time in your day. You have a finite amount of time.

 

Jeff Walter (48:13)

Right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(48:25)

You don’t have enough time in your day to try and get them caught up above and beyond to catch up to everybody else. So now you can spot them. They won’t get embarrassed in front of the class because data is being seen just by you, the instructor.

 

Jeff Walter (48:35)

All right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(48:38)

Now you can work with them individually in a minimal amount of time because you can spot the deficiencies and be able to fill those voids with, okay, since you don’t understand this, I need you to do this. Take these extra tests, this extra information. Go take these, look at these videos. Try and understand these pieces and then we’re gonna test you again. I’m gonna have you do it and we’ll make sure that you’re caught up.

 

And so it’s a great tool for not only assessing and making sure that everybody’s on path, but for finding those kids before it’s too late.

 

Jeff Walter (49:13)

Yeah. Well, and that’s where I go back. I think that’s an important thing that you just mentioned is there are, there are a lot of students that are not necessarily vocal. And so, you know, um, and so, you know, unless you’re assessing rap relatively frequently, you’re not catching that they’re missing or a certain concepts and then it snowballs over the life of the course. And, uh, but that’s,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(49:40)

Sure.

 

Jeff Walter (49:43)

But you know, and, the interesting thing is that whole approach hinges on being able to do, accurate and good assessments. And that is such a difficult thing. That’s why I was so excited about what, when you mentioned it earlier and bring those experts in and building that network. Like that’s always the thing that’s the Achilles heel is, at least I’ve seen with my clients is, it’s just getting good assessments. It’s really hard.

 

It’s really hard to do that. like, you know, anybody that’s tried to do it and a lot of, you know, what my clients have, it’s, it’s hard. that’s thank you. That was, that was brilliant insight. I like that. Thank you. So, um, so what do you see, uh, in the future for you guys? You know, there’s a, you know, uh, new technology happening all the time. Where do you guys go from here?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(50:07)

Bye.

 

New technology, the changes and shifts, like I say, every other year we’re scrubbing through our material. We’re now utilizing AI, we’re leveraging AI to, we don’t use it to write material, we use it to vet and validate that we’re covering 100 % of everything that needs to be covered in a balanced way. So again, the rules are written by ASE, they publish a guide, an ASE study guide, and in this guide is the Bible that

 

that says everything you need to know. And so we use AI versus humans just to scrub that and be able to compare it to all of our test bank data and let us know where we stand. humans couldn’t do that in years.

 

Jeff Walter (51:16)

Okay. So they come out

 

with their new Bible, new version of the, of the, Bible. And then you sit there and go, here’s my, here’s my test bank. Here’s the, the prep guide. Yo, let’s, let’s do the analysis to see how well does our test bank cover the tech, the prep guide. And that’s where you sit and go, well, there’s these, you know, eight different subjects or, you know, a hundred different subjects or whatever level of granularity. We we’ve got these.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(51:21)

Bye.

 

Basically.

 

All

 

Jeff Walter (51:44)

80 % covered, these 10%, you know, we got these 80 % covered in spades, these 10%, there’s been a lot of change and so they need work. And there’s another 10 % that’s brand new and we really need to, you know, focus on that. That’s very cool. And then you go, but then you do the, let’s, but then you leverage your network because you want to get stuff that’s actually relevant and meaningful on the ground. And that’s what I like about that.

 

The way you set that up is, you know, versus say using AI to generate a bunch of questions and answers, right? You know,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(52:17)

1. And I can

 

tell you some people that do do that, but we won’t get into that.

 

Jeff Walter (52:23)

Yeah, yeah, no,

 

but, but, you’re getting that you’re, you’re, you’re actually leveraging that human network at that, that network, all that, all that brain power to say, is this, is this relevant to what you guys actually do on a day to day basis? You know,

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(52:32)

Mm-hmm.

 

Right, right. And that human

 

network, just so you know, these aren’t, I mean, these are all again, experts, educators, people that are out there in the world.

 

And so what we’ll do as part of that process of that, before they begin a vetting process, they’re gonna go and take ASC tests in that area or those areas that they’re going to start vetting it. We want them to see what’s new coming out of ASC and what they’re asking now that they didn’t ask two years ago, okay?

 

So that’s between that and the guide that allows us to keep up with the pace of what’s expected to be known or understood out there.

 

Jeff Walter (53:17)

All right, cool. Is there anything else you’d like to tell the folks out there about ASC test prep or just anything at all about the techs or?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(53:27)

Well.

 

I mean, ASC test prep itself, you know, it’s, we’re taking that business into the future with, again, paying attention to what’s coming down the pipe. We’re offering more and more ASC certification practice test areas. We offer, actually, there’s 14 on ASC test prep certification areas that we offer. Not everybody wants to be an A1 through A8 master certified technician. They need to know undercar specialists,

 

how exhaust systems and emission standards work. Maybe they’re gonna be a parts person, they’re gonna work at a parts counter somewhere.

 

or a customer service like a service writer at a dealership. I have certification tests that’ll get them ready and pass that test. So there’s different certifications all across the board. There’s new certifications that are coming down to Pike. They’re not new to the industry, but new to us and prep. The advanced driver assist systems, all the cool things that keep you safe on the road, okay.

 

There’s more advanced hybrid systems coming onto the market. so there’s new certification to keep up with that.

 

So we’re adding more tests as time goes on. the ASC test prep and the student side, they’re never going to be stale. We’re keeping with them. It’s just a constant evolution. And we’re excited about the future with this because it’s just, to me, I love helping the industry somewhere. And now I’m able to handle and help the industry from day one of education all the way through until they’re retired because

 

Jeff Walter (54:41)

All right.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(55:00)

Just a bottom line, the ASE certification is not good forever when you get a test, when you pass a test. You have to pass that test again every five years. You have to recertify in those areas. You’re going to be taking ASE certification tests for your entire automotive career.

 

if you’re one of those that wants to be certified and make that money and get those jobs. So we can handle people from the, like I said, day one of their education till they retire.

 

Jeff Walter (55:32)

That’s fantastic. And if somebody wanted to get ahold of you or AIC test prep, where would they go and how would they do that?

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(55:40)

The easiest way is to send me a carl at asetestprep.com or just visit asetestprep.com and reach out to me through the site. With a C, yes sir.

 

Jeff Walter (55:50)

And that’s Carl with a C. Carl with

 

a C or aactestprep.com. Carl, thank you so much for joining us today and giving us your time. I really appreciate it. And thank you.

 

Carl Borsani of ASE Test Prep(55:56)

Yes.

 

Yeah, you’re welcome, Jeff. It was a pleasure. I appreciate it.

 

Jeff Walter (56:07)

And to everybody out there, thank you for listening. We appreciate your time and attention. Have a good day.