Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
In this episode of the Training Impact Podcast, Jeff Walter speaks with Corey Glassman about how ASE developed a national EV safety standard and why that development matters for technician performance, certification, and workforce readiness. The conversation centers on a significant milestone in the automotive industry. ASE did not merely discuss electric vehicle competency. It built a formal standard that now guides how technicians approach EV safety and service.
Electric vehicles have transformed the automotive landscape. High voltage battery systems, advanced electronics, regenerative braking, and integrated software platforms require a different level of technical understanding than traditional internal combustion vehicles. The skills required to work safely on EV systems are more specialized, more electrical, and more procedure driven.
The question facing the industry was straightforward. How do you define competence in this new environment?
ASE answered that question by developing the EV safety standard.
As EV adoption accelerated, service networks faced growing uncertainty. Training programs varied widely. Some technicians had extensive electrical backgrounds. Others were learning on the fly. Without a unified benchmark, safety practices could differ from shop to shop.
High voltage systems introduce real risk. Improper isolation procedures or incomplete understanding of battery management systems can result in injury, equipment damage, or costly repair errors. The absence of a defined national standard created inconsistency.
ASE developed the EV safety standard to establish a clear baseline. It defines what technicians must understand about high voltage systems, personal protective equipment, system isolation, diagnostic protocols, and safe handling procedures.
A standard does not eliminate complexity. It organizes it.
During the episode, Corey explains that the development of the EV safety standard was a structured, deliberate effort that required more than a year of focused work. It was not a casual initiative. It involved collaboration with industry experts and technical leaders to identify the competencies that truly matter in EV environments.
The outcome of that effort is the XEV safety standard. It exists today. It is active. It is integrated into ASE certification pathways.
That distinction is important. ASE has already developed the EV safety standard. It is not a proposal or pilot. It is a formalized framework shaping technician readiness.
Certification is only as strong as the standards behind it. By developing the EV safety standard, ASE strengthened the foundation of its certification programs.
For technicians, certification aligned with the EV safety standard communicates validated expertise in a high growth area of the industry. It demonstrates readiness to work on electric vehicles with defined safety competence.
For employers, the EV safety standard reduces hiring uncertainty. Service managers can rely on a nationally recognized benchmark rather than informal assurances of EV experience.
For customers, the presence of ASE certification tied to an EV safety standard reinforces trust. In an era where many consumers are new to electric vehicles, visible competence matters.
Certification becomes more than a credential. It becomes a signal of preparedness.
The automotive industry is navigating one of its most significant technological shifts. Electric vehicles are reshaping product lines, service models, and workforce requirements.
Transitions create instability. Standards create stability.
By developing the EV safety standard, ASE provided a stabilizing framework during a period of disruption. Shops do not have to invent their own EV safety guidelines. Educational programs do not have to guess at core competencies. Technicians do not have to navigate ambiguity about what safe EV service requires.
Clarity improves confidence. Confidence improves performance.
A recurring theme in the episode is professional identity. Automotive technicians are not simply adapting to change. They are mastering increasingly complex systems.
The EV safety standard reinforces that mastery. It defines electric vehicle service as a disciplined practice with measurable expectations. Technicians who achieve certification aligned with the EV safety standard demonstrate commitment to professional growth.
Recognition supports pride. Pride supports performance.
As technology becomes more advanced, professional identity becomes more important. Clear standards help elevate the role from informal trade to recognized profession.
In distributed service ecosystems, performance variability creates operational risk. Inconsistent EV safety practices can result in diagnostic errors, rework, or safety incidents.
The EV safety standard reduces that variability by defining baseline expectations. When technicians across different regions align with the same national standard, performance becomes more consistent.
Consistency benefits manufacturers, service networks, and customers. It also supports brand integrity in multi location environments.
Jeff connects this directly to the broader themes of the Training Impact Podcast. Standards that link to measurable competence strengthen training impact.
The development of the EV safety standard also addresses workforce challenges. The technician population is aging. At the same time, EV technology requires new skill sets.
Clear standards create structured pathways for upskilling. Experienced technicians can pursue certification aligned with the EV safety standard to expand their competence. New entrants into the field can see defined milestones.
Structured progression improves engagement and retention. When expectations are transparent, growth becomes attainable.
The EV safety standard therefore supports not only safety and quality, but also workforce sustainability.
Although ASE has developed the EV safety standard, the conversation makes clear that standards must evolve as technology evolves. Battery systems change. Diagnostic software updates. New EV architectures emerge.
The presence of a developed standard does not signal completion of progress. It establishes a foundation for ongoing refinement.
That dynamic approach ensures that certification remains relevant and credible in a rapidly changing industry.
The development of the EV safety standard demonstrates proactive leadership. ASE recognized that EV adoption required more than incremental updates. It required a formalized framework.
That framework now influences training programs, certification processes, and workforce expectations nationwide.
In many industries, technological disruption outpaces standardization. In this case, standardization moved forward deliberately to support safe and competent EV service.
That matters.
This episode of the Training Impact Podcast highlights how ASE developed a national EV safety standard that is now reshaping technician certification and workforce readiness. The standard defines safety protocols, clarifies competencies, and reduces variability across service environments.
By developing the EV safety standard, ASE strengthened its role as a benchmark for technician excellence. The framework provides clarity during industry transformation and supports safe, consistent EV service.
Standards build trust. Trust strengthens performance. And performance sustains the future of the automotive workforce.
To learn more about ASE certification and the EV safety standard, visit
https://www.ase.com
For more from the Training Impact Podcast, follow us on Social Media
https://t-sml.mtrbio.com/public/smartlink/trainingimpactpodcast
Jeff Walter (00:00)
Hello, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast. My guest today is Corey of ASE Glassman. Corey of ASE is an electric vehicle consultant for the ASC. That’s the Automotive Service Excellence or the National Association of Automotive Service Excellence. He designs and develops electrical safety standards for vehicles, heavy duty fleets, and the transit industry in general. Corey of ASE, welcome to the program.
Corey of ASE (00:06)
Bye.
Hi there, how are you? And Jeff, thank you for having me on the podcast.
Jeff Walter (00:27)
It’s great. Great to have you here. Love to learn more about what’s going on. always like the automotive industry. It takes everything that we try and do elsewhere in learning and human development and puts it on steroids because vehicles are exceedingly complicated and it’s a huge industry and there’s hundreds of thousands of people involved in it. So I always find it a really good template. There’s so many lessons you can learn.
studying this particular industry that applied to other industries because it is, you know, it’s a, you know, at the end of the day, these are all very high priced products. They’re very complicated. and, and you can generalize, ⁓ what the industry has done to other industries. So anyway, thank you, Corey of ASE, for, for being here. And, ⁓ especially on the electric vehicle, you know, that’s the, you know, most of the emerging side. And so,
Corey of ASE (01:08)
Absolutely.
Jeff Walter (01:16)
How did you end up as an EV consultant for the ASC? How does one’s career end you up there?
Corey of ASE (01:25)
Well, I won’t go all the way back to the beginning, but it did start in the automotive industry. So I’m a certified technician. I was an instructor at Denver Institute of Technology. I was an instructor at in the Air Force for tactical air command. And that’s where I had my interest in teaching, in education and understanding.
So originally, this was back in the about the 1980s or so, 1990s, when vehicles first started to see electronic components put onto the vehicles and we had to measure frequency, duty cycle, pulse width. At that time, I really didn’t have much of an idea. I had a similar understanding, a bit of an understanding in it.
but I bought a Fluke 87. And after I bought the meter, I got it home. I looked at the manual and it was written in a far off land by a far off person. So, part of my background is I redesigned the, never, never. So, you know, being the automotive technician and my interest, I redesigned the manual, I rewrote everything, sent it off to Fluke and.
Jeff Walter (02:29)
That is never happened to any of us
Corey of ASE (02:43)
Hence, Fluke hired me and brought me to Seattle where I now live. And I spent the last 30 some odd years working for Fluke. when I retired from Fluke, I contacted ASC with a friend of mine who’s president of ASC. And he said, hey, we have a project for you. And so as you said before, this is the similarity between industries.
Jeff Walter (03:06)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (03:06)
I took
my automotive experience and helped Fluke develop some of the best equipment in the world with the meters and the scopes and thermal imagers. And then when the opportunity came for ASE, I used my experience with Fluke over the past 30 years of education and applied it to the automotive industry and wrote the standard.
Jeff Walter (03:30)
So just this really curious and I just want to go back because you mentioned it and so let me get this straight.
Corey of ASE (03:36)
Always.
Jeff Walter (03:37)
You were a service tech.
taking up fixing vehicles, doing, you know, doing what service techs do. And you bought a piece of equipment and you’re the fluke, the diagnostic equipment. And you said, and you said this guide, this user manual, this instructions on how to use this thing is subpar. And so I’m going to write it from scratch.
And then not just write it from scratch. I’m going to mail it into the, or even to the company. And then they ended up hiring you. That is the, that is so well, that is so cool, but I’ve never heard anything like that. It ever, ever. And, and, and, well, cause the,
Corey of ASE (04:10)
That’s what I did.
You
Yeah, the stars aligned.
Jeff Walter (04:28)
I mean, were you even thinking that when you wrote it or because because you went from a service tech job, I assume coming over a fluke, was you’re now a corporate job, right? You’re you know, like.
Corey of ASE (04:31)
No.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly. I mean, it was my first experience moving into a corporate culture and working on again with an opportunity to develop and lead groups in from an automotive perspective on developing some tools. And that wasn’t my initial intention. I just wanted to help Fluke. I saw a great product.
Jeff Walter (04:45)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (05:03)
but I also recognized that they came at it from an electronics perspective and background. And I wanted to help them communicate better from an automotive perspective on how to use their equipment. And so that’s sort of where that was born.
Jeff Walter (05:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Well, I just think that’s really wild. um, and, and, and just, it just kind of show, you know, I was just talking to my daughter, um, last night and we were just talking about her career. Uh, she’s 30 and so she’s been at school for about eight years or so. And, uh, you know, she’s starting to see things that were laid down at the beginning of her career and they’re starting to, you know, work together and it, just, it just never ceases to make me and it ties into the training.
⁓ two, but it’s, it’s, never know. Like you, like you do these things and you, you, have not a clue what kind of impact you’re having on other people or what type of opportunities are going to present themselves to you. And, and that whole, just going out and doing good things like you just never know. And it’s, that’s amazing. Cause I’m just looking at the arc of your career and that’s like a complete.
shift in, in direction and not only in geography, right? mean, you you said you moved out to Seattle. it’s anyway, that’s just, I just want to pause on that for a second. know it’s kind of not the focus, the focus of what we’re doing, but just the other thesis to amaze me how, know, cause we, especially when we, you know, when we get into like human capital development, or, know, we kind of tend to go, okay, this person is a this, whatever this is, right? Whether it’s a service tech or cashier.
Corey of ASE (06:19)
It is. It is.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (06:43)
or, you know, a middle manager or a salesperson, like there were this, and we just have these ideas in our head that they’re going to be that forever. And, uh, anyway, it’s just, it’s just fascinating. Okay. So then. Yeah.
Corey of ASE (06:53)
No, mean, you’re right.
Oh, and I was going to say, you you raise an important point too, because even in training, and that’s what we’re talking about, we have a tendency to come through the lens of who is the person consuming the training. And it’s important to understand their fundamental background, their understanding, the way they learn. And that’s what I used when I helped Fluke, because I brought to them that automotive perspective, which they were lacking.
And I utilize that to help their engineering teams understand more about the mindset of the automotive technician and the challenges that they face.
Jeff Walter (07:34)
Yeah, so now let’s fast forward then to the ASC. So, you you retire, you’ve built this great wealth of knowledge, especially on the electric side. And electric vehicles are taking significant chunks of the market. And even the gas-powered vehicles, know, mean, vehicles are more more rolling computers.
you know, like giant iPads that we sit in. And so what did the ASE engage you to do and why was that something that they engaged, you to join them? What was the need there? What were we trying to accomplish?
Corey of ASE (07:58)
Hahaha.
Well, they saw the trajectory. Their board of directors who basically are comprised of individuals that make up our OEMs and independents and the shops in general. They saw the trajectory of…
the electrified vehicles coming into the mainstream. It wasn’t new. Clearly we’ve had electrified vehicles, in fact, since the turn of the last century. So it’s not new to us. We’ve understood that, and we’ve had hybrids for many years. But the fully electrified vehicles, we were looking at a technician that wasn’t necessarily familiar with working with extreme high energy
Jeff Walter (08:31)
Right.
Corey of ASE (08:52)
in a shop bay and how do we deal with that in a safe fashion. And they knew they had to develop a standard that everyone could agree with and follow as training was developed, as certifications were developed by industry. And if we didn’t do it, it would probably be done by someone who didn’t understand one side or the other. So I was uniquely suited
Jeff Walter (09:11)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (09:21)
I think to take my knowledge of automotive and my knowledge of electronics and developing standards and training for the electronic industry and be able to bring that into the automotive industry.
Jeff Walter (09:34)
So how does one go about, I mean, that’s a pretty big lift, right? Like let’s create a new industry standard for an emerging technology that will lead to certification, not just of individual service techs, but for folks that are not familiar, the ASC certification also extends to the service centers themselves and having a certified service center.
And to schools and vocational programs in K-12 and vocational schools getting the ASC certification. So, you know, it’s, not just a certified, I mean, not just, right. yeah, it’s not like, you know, that that’s already big enough, but it extends beyond that. So like, and so how does one go about coming up with a new industry standard? I mean, you’re a smart guy, but.
Corey of ASE (10:23)
Yeah.
Well, you know, part of the experience that I had at Fluke, we would use different terminology that looked at projects from ideation, where we analyze what the possibilities are, and no idea is either right or wrong. You just put them out there and then you analyze and you group them. And
you determine from the consumer’s perspective what’s important to them. And I also looked at what was existing from NFPA 70E, National Fire Protection Association, from OSHA, from SAE, from other existing standards, as well as interviews of many of the training developers at the OEs.
on their thought process and what they have already invested in in the direction they’re taking for their vehicles. And then putting a project together and it’s all about project management. So I spent over a year developing this standard.
Jeff Walter (11:31)
So when you say the standard, know, most of us have, there’s two things that come to my mind. One is, you know, the standard of like, well, what is a foot and a feel that a foot is, you know, this length, right? Or whatever that standard is. And then the other thing that comes to mind is a certification. But, but when you say the standard, what, what, what does that look like? What does it, what does it tactile feel like?
Corey of ASE (11:40)
Hmm.
You
Jeff Walter (11:54)
What does it look and feel like to actually come up with an industry standard for electric vehicles?
Corey of ASE (12:00)
⁓ Good question, good question
because it’s a lot of it starts with What does the technician know where are they familiar? Where are they comfortable? We’ve worked with ice engines. We’ve worked with internal combustion for many many years But a lot of the high voltage
Jeff Walter (12:16)
I’m ice
engines for those that are listening especially in this environment today that is not immigration We’re not making engines for ice vehicles That stands for internal combustion engine I see so
Corey of ASE (12:20)
Ha ha ha ha!
No, it’s not. Okay, should we start over on that one?
Jeff Walter (12:44)
Yeah, so for anybody that’s going to start sending hate mail or, you know,
putting lots of negative comments in there. We’re talking about internal combustion engines. It’s just an easy way in the industry to differentiate them from, which includes gas and diesel and any other type of fossil fuel type of engine. So that’s why they would just don’t say gas engines, right? They say ice engines.
Corey of ASE (12:51)
you
Gas and diesel.
Exactly. Thanks for qualifying that.
Jeff Walter (13:12)
Yeah, next thing you know, we’re gonna be like memes of us on social media, you know? No, no, no, that’s fine. No, I think I think the acronyms are fine. It just kind of hit me. But but
Corey of ASE (13:16)
I’ll try not to use too many acronyms from the other side of the world here.
Jeff Walter (13:25)
anyway, I’m sorry to take you off track. But but you have the standards for ice engines. So you were talking about EVs, electric vehicles and electric engines. And so
Corey of ASE (13:32)
Right, so that’s
sort of brand new for many of the shops, the technicians, and the industry as a whole. And especially about safety. Because if we’re unsure of something, we have a tendency to fear it. You shouldn’t fear the electrified vehicles, but you should respect them. I say that because you’re dealing with high energy, so…
So part of that is something called arc flash arc blast that could occur and that’s where conductors could short together causing an arc flash which is really the melting of a lot of the copper in the bus bars or the the wiring circuits and an immediate flash that occurs which could cause cataracts it can cause
many different issues as well as the blast which occurs which is a momentary blast of all of that energy and it comes towards the person that’s that’s reaching into the circuit and in the electrical world an electrician faces that virtually every day and There are certain standards that have been developed to help keep them safe in an understanding so that’s
where the standard comes in is developing a methodology for how do you treat these high voltage circuits and components and have a better understanding and what you shall do or what you may do in a certain situation. And I can give you an example of.
Jeff Walter (15:06)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (15:06)
Working with
high voltage, you shall wear electrical safety gloves, and it gives a definition of what those gloves really are, what you should look for when you go to buy them.
Jeff Walter (15:17)
So, so, so that’s interesting because you’re just talking about the safety and I’ve had conversations before, you just the casual conversations on, on EV safety. And of course it’s much higher vault than your, than your house, right? Like, like, I think 400 volt system.
Corey of ASE (15:38)
Some of them
come up, depends if you’re working on the heavy duty trucks and in the heavy duty world, a thousand volts is not uncommon.
Jeff Walter (15:46)
Okay. Yeah. So when you compare that to like, know, you got 110 at the home and we’re talking like way, way, way higher than that. Right. Like, so, and so I’ve always, you know, I’ve always heard the, the, the, the, the, danger or the safety concerns, know, it’s like, well, you don’t want to touch those, right. Cause you’ll just electrocute yourself, but you’re talking about something else, even, and that’s like, okay, just, you know, don’t touch these things.
Corey of ASE (15:51)
You are. are.
Right.
Jeff Walter (16:11)
but you’re
going beyond that saying, you can have this arc. The arc can be so it can actually be literally blinding because you’ve said cataracts and, have a energy impulse.
Corey of ASE (16:17)
Right.
Yeah, you’re dealing in
exactly what you said, energy, because you’re looking at fault current, at energy that is being converted and not just voltage. You could take 24 volts. I have a military vehicle at home. I’m into restoring vehicles. So this military vehicle has, excuse me, a 24 volt system.
Well, you could touch across 24 volts. You’re not going to feel it. It’s not a problem. You could even theoretically, you could short across it. Yeah, you’ll get a spark, but it’s not going to melt the conductors necessarily. But if you combine that voltage with current, that’s where the problem comes from. And with the battery stacks that we have in electrified vehicles, we stack
Jeff Walter (16:49)
All right.
Corey of ASE (17:14)
a lot of current capability with the voltage. So it continues to push that energy through the system. And that’s the danger because of that combination.
Jeff Walter (17:26)
So, okay, so the standard includes things like when you’re working on, know, how you should prep yourself, you’re working on these. they, like when we say standards, are we talking about like processes and procedures for engaging and the knowledge thereof? Is that what we mean by standards?
Corey of ASE (17:43)
Yes, some of it. we, and again, I say we because in working in collaboration with different workshops with the OEs and internal at ASE, looking at who needs to know what skills or what capabilities in order to maintain safety. So there’s a level one certification.
Jeff Walter (18:03)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (18:06)
which deals with someone that is not necessarily going to reach into an EV, an electrified vehicle, and perform a repair. But it is someone that might be working in the area of an EV. Perhaps it’s a service rider that needs to get into an EV and move the vehicle or look under the hood or walk into the service bay. What do they need to understand? Perhaps it could be a parts specialist that’s
signing in a parts shipment and they see a battery pack and the battery is sitting on a pallet and it has apparent damage and perhaps it’s smoking. Okay, what do you do? It could be somebody that is cleaning up the shop at night, people have gone home and they see an EV and they’re curious. How do they…
mark the area to keep people out with different types of identification of stanchions and so on and so forth that keeps people out of that area. So that would be a level one, somebody that needs the awareness. Level two is somebody that actually works in and on the electrified circuits.
Jeff Walter (19:06)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (19:20)
So they have a more immediate need of understanding how to correctly save the systems, how the systems fundamentally work. And obviously there are many differences, but there are a lot of commonalities between the systems that we see. So giving them instructions and then there’s actually, there is one further, we don’t go into.
Jeff Walter (19:30)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (19:45)
someone that actually disassembles the battery packs, only someone that would replace it.
Jeff Walter (19:50)
Okay, so we’re not, ⁓ so we go up to the point of handling the equipment, not getting inside of the batteries, we call it themselves. So.
Corey of ASE (19:51)
you
the batteries themselves. Well, and the reason
for that is that the batteries, because it’s a chemical reaction, the batteries inherently can’t be saved. They’re always producing that energy. And the way that they’re assembled can be done very safely, but if you are unaware of something and there is a shorting capability or some incident with the battery,
like spontaneous type of a heating situation and a thermal runaway, ⁓ that could be dangerous.
Jeff Walter (20:27)
I don’t know.
It, um, this just popped into my head. It has nothing to do with the, you know, the, the, service tax. Oh, I was just thinking about first responders in accidents. Uh, is there, is, is that seems to be from what you were just saying level one, level two, of like an in-between, right? Like, like, is, is that, is there any guidance on that or is, how does that, or is that outside the ASC, but that’s.
Corey of ASE (20:40)
Mm-hmm.
That’s
really out, and that’s a great question because it is outside of it, however, it’s parallel to it. ⁓ And the reason I say that is if there’s an incident in the shop and an EV is on the lift and maybe it’s been involved in an accident and by lifting the vehicle, you flex the surrounding case of a battery.
Jeff Walter (21:03)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (21:18)
And
perhaps by doing that, it exposes a rupture in the battery pack. And again, it has an internal thermal runaway condition where it’s shorting out the different cells or the packs inside. The question becomes, what should the technician do? What does the shop do? We’ve heard early on where there have been incidents where once a lithium ion battery pack starts on fire,
Jeff Walter (21:33)
All right.
Corey of ASE (21:48)
The way to put it out is you have to reduce the temperature and flood it with massive amounts of water. And you’re trying to cool that pack. And in many cases, if that happens, the question becomes for a technician, first it’s about human life, obviously. ⁓ If possible, yes, you can roll the vehicle out away from the shop.
Jeff Walter (22:05)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (22:12)
But if you can’t, get out of there. And so it becomes a first responder issue when they come onto an incident. If they see an EV that’s involved in that incident, their first question is, can it be moved away from another structure? Do they fight this offensively, defensively? And how do they put it out? In fact, in Europe,
through the research, we found that in areas of Europe, they have a big container, you know, from the container ships. And they’ve taken the top off of it and they fill it with water, put it on a tractor trailer truck, and it has a crane on it. And it will actually grab the vehicle that is involved in this thermal runaway condition. And it picks it up and then douses it into the
into the water, submerges it. I mean, that is one extreme. And that’s how, you know, there are blankets that they can use to help smother it and contain it. But once it starts on fire, most of the time they let it burn. They just let it burn.
Jeff Walter (23:09)
Wow.
I just had this, you know, I’m like thinking that the image of the tractor trailer with the water and the crane, it’s like, it’s like, gives a whole new meaning to tow truck. You know, it’s like, dows it, slashing around. So, So, so, so now you got, so you, you, you work with a consortium there that you assembled the network of folks there. You know, you know, you’re not starting from a
Corey of ASE (23:30)
Yeah.
It does. It’s sloshing around. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:51)
complete plank sheet of paper. There’s already standards at the AAC for other things related to that. And there’s these other industries that have been dealing, you know, with high voltage systems for a while. And you put together the standard. How, how do you, how does one go about then getting that adopted? Because, know, because there’s a, especially when it comes to industry certifications, there’s a whole ecosystem out there, right? Like, and how do you get the.
the techs and the everybody to respect the standard, I guess, is be a good way of putting it and then ⁓ adopt it. Like, how do you know if you put together, I never thought about this one before, but like, how do you know if you put together a good standard? And then how do get people to adopt it? You know, if you.
Corey of ASE (24:36)
Well, this was, you
know, from ASC’s perspective, this was the challenge, right? What most of the ASC certification exams deal with existing knowledge of how a system or subsystem operates, how do you repair it, how do you work with it, and the knowledge is existing in industry.
for the most part, even potential new features and new items are.
exposed by the schools. People have a tendency to learn on that. And then ASC writes the certification exams. We were going into an area that was brand new. People didn’t have that knowledge. And so that’s where we had to develop a fundamental form of knowledge.
that can be conveyed not only in what we’re calling the standard, but also given to the training community so they knew how to train people in working around on and around these electrified vehicles.
Jeff Walter (25:51)
Right. And, and, and how do you get that adoption? Like, I just, like, it sounds like a massive undertaking. Like I’m thinking all of the hundreds of thousands of, auto tech programs in, in, in high schools, the scores and scores and scores of vocational programs, the thousands of, service centers around the, around the country, around the world, tens of thousands.
It just sounds like a massive undertaking.
Corey of ASE (26:20)
It is, and that’s up to the time that ASE accepted the challenge to develop this, no one had developed that common language or that common technology. And that was the challenge that we faced. And so that’s why, I mean, I’m proud to have been involved in this and I didn’t write the standard, the industry wrote the standard.
Jeff Walter (26:32)
Right.
Well, and so,
so, but how do you actually do that? Okay.
Corey of ASE (26:47)
And I think that’s the key is involving others.
You involve
the industry. You involve others that are responsible for the training because they wanted to have this common way of looking at this and being able to talk about it.
Jeff Walter (27:04)
Okay.
All right. And then, and then once you start doing that, how do you, how do you, again, these are things I’ve, I’ve, I’ve haven’t thought about. So it’s kind of interesting. It’s like, how do you know you did it? Well, you know what I mean? Like, like, ⁓ and a lot of, in a lot of training.
You know, there’s it’s almost a little easier to know you did a good job, right? It’s like, want the person to know X. I can assess them and whether they know X and then I put them through some type of learning experience and then I can assess them on how well they know X. Right. And I can see, yes, this, particular, you know, form of training or whatever I’m doing, skill development or that I can kind of do the before and after I can kind of do the, like, but
How do you know if a standard or something like this is actually hitting the mark?
I had even how would I’m just saying how would you measure your success? How would you measure whether or not you did it well? Any thoughts there?
Corey of ASE (28:03)
Well,
true, and that’s the challenge as well. In the electrical industry, they have five to 10 arc flash incidents every single day for electricians that happen to be involved in this arc flash arc blast. And in the automotive industry, we…
Jeff Walter (28:22)
Hmm.
Corey of ASE (28:25)
have been monitoring, we haven’t heard of that happening necessarily. I’m sure that there are small incidents that can occur and once somebody understands what can happen, hopefully they stay within some guardrails to be able to do the right thing. And that’s what this gives them is that basic fundamental understanding and ability to do the right thing. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Jeff Walter (28:37)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (28:52)
If you take the panel, well, if you take the panel off of here, I was going to say, you know, in your home, you might take the cover off of your distribution panel and you have high energy entering what they call the SE, the service entrance coming into your house or your facility. Doesn’t mean that you should not wear safety gear. Doesn’t mean that you should take a conductor or
Jeff Walter (28:55)
story of my life
Corey of ASE (29:19)
and passively work within that environment if it’s energized. I mean, that becomes sort of that common sense that technicians will have with the EVs of what’s the right way to treat it and not.
Jeff Walter (29:34)
And how long ago did you guys come up with the ASC standard for the EVs? How long has that been in existence now?
Corey of ASE (29:41)
I
retired in 2021 at the end of 2021. So I believe this was 2022 that it started as a process. And so took about a year to a year and a half through the entire process and testing to validate the standard by industry because you, you write it and then you review it and then you rewrite it and you can, it’s a continual process of development.
And we’re to the point now that the standard has been very well vetted and we’ve had great, great remarks on it. People like reading it and using it. Someone can go to ASC.com and download the standard. We don’t charge for it. It’s our gift to the industry to provide that.
Jeff Walter (30:31)
And so that’s relatively, so it’s relatively new. Cause if I do the math, we’re talking about like 2023 is when it kind of got released or went, you got out of the beta version as you were, as you would be, you know? And so that’s a fairly new standard. how have we seen it be well adapted the way the other, some of the other certifications and standards have been adopted? we seeing?
uptick it’s in the number of folks getting certified in that or how does that look like compared to other ASC stuff?
Corey of ASE (31:04)
It has.
It’s been on par with the other ASC certification exams. And over time, technology changes. So that’s something that our psychometricians and the people that look at all of the tests and the test scores and the value that the tests or the certification exams provide to the end users, we’re constantly analyzing that.
Jeff Walter (31:15)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (31:31)
And we feel confident, yes, that we did hit the mark with this and that it is providing useful knowledge and testing for that knowledge ⁓ to those technicians and shops because the shop and the shop owners have a responsibility in this as well.
Jeff Walter (31:40)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, and it’s so so within a few short years you’re saying it’s pretty much on par with the other types of certifications out there. You know, I think whether they’re eight or nine now, they break down the vehicle to eight or nine certifications. And that’s that’s actually I think that that that would be that’s a good.
Corey of ASE (32:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (32:11)
proxy for, you know, for measuring success. If you can come on par with the rest, because, you know, so for folks that aren’t, it’s really, you know, it’s not like a bar exam or a CPA exam where it’s like, Hey, you’re just going to have a very short period of time. Take all these. It usually takes many years to become a master, technician, which means you’ve taken all eight of the exams that can take a decade or more. So it’s, it can take a while to get there.
Corey of ASE (32:39)
Correct. And, you know, this was also a challenge for ASE because many of the certification sections require a great deal of industry collaboration and were allowed the luxury of time to develop this. And in the EV world, all of a sudden the industry
was starting to introduce EVs and they were showing up at the shops. People were starting to see them as even the consumer and looking at these large orange cables thinking, what’s this? So we had to really get ahead of this. And that was part of the challenge was developing this concurrently with the release of new products into the market.
Jeff Walter (33:03)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Corey of ASE (33:27)
to maintain that level of safety that has to exist in the shops. And so it was an undertaking of sort of this massive proportion of how do we do this and do it effectively and do it well.
Jeff Walter (33:33)
Mm-hmm.
And now that it’s rolled out and we’ve got a couple of years under the belt, so has it gone into more of the, I would say the kind of the normal care and feeding that you’ve seen in other, yeah, I mean, like you said, the technology is constantly changing. And one thing that’s really impressive about the ISE is they’re constantly keeping the tests and asserts relevant to things as they come out. So I assume that this is going that same.
Corey of ASE (34:04)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (34:09)
route, whatever that cycle is that they’re doing there.
Corey of ASE (34:14)
It is. We have workshops and that’s what ASCE terms them. We invite industry experts, really people that work with the vehicles every day, both from an OEM perspective and independent perspective, many different people that can provide their talent and knowledge to review existing questions to
Jeff Walter (34:24)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (34:37)
come up with new questions that deal with new technology, ⁓ to always maintain that credibility within the tests that we provide. And it’s been interesting for me to be on the back end of that, of seeing how that’s done an immense amount of work from some extremely talented people. These are people that are at the top of their game. They really are.
Jeff Walter (34:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So, so quick question. If I was in a different industry and I was going to attempt something similar, you know, through, through a consortium or association like the ASC, but how big, you know, cause you know, from a scale perspective, you got, what is it? A couple of hundred thousand or four or 500,000 service techs just in the United States, something like that, like half a million or so.
Corey of ASE (35:26)
At least. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. At least.
Jeff Walter (35:29)
And that’s just here in
the U S it’s a, it’s a very big industry. There are a lot of folks involved. And there’s no regulatory requirement to be certified. It’s a, it’s, it’s an industry certification, but if I was going to tackle it, so given that size and you said you reached out to the OEMs and so there’s a, you know, relatively low number of them, but how big was the got consortium.
between the OEMs, the schools, the instructors, the master technicians, the folks on the phone, the texts that are actually out there. How, how big a team of let’s just call that an advisory team or a, I don’t know what the right term is. It’s not even an advisory team, but, you know what I’m saying? Like, yeah, it was the thousands and thousands, hundreds, dozens, you know, how to.
Corey of ASE (36:09)
Sure.
⁓ It’s
not the thousands, it’s more like in the hundreds, probably of people that represent that. But it doesn’t stop there. I think the research, some of the best research that I was able to perform was going to industry training events. And there are some phenomenal training events that are available to the shops and the techs today.
So I would go around the US and talk to people that came in from around the world to educate people on what the standards are in Europe, in EMEA, and throughout Asia. And that way you develop an understanding of how work is performed and the difference of how work is performed here in the US versus Europe, for instance.
Jeff Walter (37:09)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (37:10)
So I was able to analyze without making some topic bad or wrong, you analyze would that work here in the United States? And in some instances, it wouldn’t because of how we repair the vehicles or how we look at things. So without getting into details of a service issue that would be performed,
We might say you may use this type of safety gear or procedure when confronting this. But that incorporated many people that were looking at it in a similar fashion from around the world. So the numbers were growing. And then once the tests are introduced, we would have technicians if they
had questions on a test, we were monitoring all of that and getting back to people. So we always had a way to get the feedback and then develop or develop and enhance the standards according to that feedback that we were getting. Does that make sense?
Jeff Walter (38:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, well, cause it’s building that network of folks. And I was trying to get a sense of how big the network is and how do you operate within that network? Cause it’s a, it’s a, know, everybody’s got a day job, right. And, and, and, yet you’re, they’ve got some specialty knowledge that you’re trying to tap into and, just interesting how to do that. And, and, and, and when we were doing it for an industry, it’s a fairly open ended, population or open ended up.
network, how do you get them and in doing so get champions and it’s a huge undertaking, really huge, really very impressive. Like it’s amazing. It really is.
Corey of ASE (38:48)
It is.
Well, it’s a huge undertaking
for any part of ASC or any part of any certification or testing in that you’re incorporating information and knowledge from the people that work with it every day. And I think that’s the key is don’t compartmentalize this without a full understanding of a 360 view on it.
Jeff Walter (39:10)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (39:19)
you
want to come from the lens of the consumer. We call that at Fluke, where I was at, is called go to GIMBA. Go to the source of the consumption. Go to the source of where that material is being taught or implemented.
Jeff Walter (39:37)
What do you call ember? Gimba.
Corey of ASE (39:38)
GEMBA, G-E-M-B-A,
a Japanese term for part of a process of how to look at things, yeah. GEMBA.
Jeff Walter (39:45)
go to, go to Gamba.
Yeah. I was trying to figure out what the, thought I, I thank you for saying it was Japanese term because I was trying to, I’m trying to piece together the acronym and I’m like, I’m just not getting it. Like G I I’m like, you know, get it right. The, yeah. No, no, Okay. Yeah. So that’s really interesting. So, so,
Corey of ASE (39:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I told you I’d stay away from acronyms.
Jeff Walter (40:10)
Yeah, I assume you’ve been involved with, you know, continue to be involved with them. you know, I was having an interesting conversation the other day on certifications in general. And, you know, my own personal take that, you know, most people view a certification as a ceiling and I always view it as a floor. You know, it’s kind of like, it’s, it’s certifying that you have some minimal level of knowledge or skill. Now it could be a very high floor, but you know,
Corey of ASE (40:29)
True.
Jeff Walter (40:39)
And how do you see, I’d be interested on your take up when we’re looking at certifications, whether it’s, you know, in the EV space or other things, how do you see the, you know, the technology of AI coming in and what does that mean to certify people or how do see that playing out in the future in this space?
Corey of ASE (41:01)
⁓ You know, AI represents an amazing opportunity. And I think we’re fledgling. We all see it. We all are nervous about it. We don’t know where AI is going to go or how much power it can present us with. And it’s like anything, you know, when computers were first introduced, we had something that was called, well, I’ll use another.
acronym, GJO, so garbage in, garbage out, right? So we found that in programming, if we didn’t program it correctly, the results would be not useful. So, you know, how you ask AI to do something, how you present the question or the search query and how it looks at this, you might get different
Jeff Walter (41:37)
Hahaha!
Corey of ASE (41:52)
different responses. They’re fast. They base them on what it can search the internet with. But the question is how accurate is that response? And should we follow it blindly or should you marry that with your understanding, your intuition, and your skills?
Jeff Walter (42:12)
Yeah, and and do you see it?
I’m just trying to think about how it affects the standard. I’ve had a lot of conversations about, and I was just in one yesterday with Matt Johnson over at Design Interactive about the compression of skill development. Because it gives you the, with simulation, gives you the opportunity to practice and get coaching, which is the hard.
Yeah. And then I was talking to some other folks about, you know, on analogy acquisition side, you know, there’s, you know, generative AI to create the content quicker. And of course everything’s gotta be QA to make sure, you know, like you said, you just don’t do this blindly, but, know, kind of a huge productivity improvement on that side. And then on the, on the skill development, as you start going, virtual, you know, a huge, great way to.
finally do skill development at scale. And the reason I say that is because that requires practice and coaching. And that’s really expensive unless you’re doing it digitally, unless you can have a way of practicing skills digitally, which hasn’t been, but I’m just, I’m just, so I’m trying to get my arms around on that. Like you were talking about, but I’m wondering how it affects the standard itself because it’s not obvious to me that the
the standard would change or you, mean, other than you’re taking into account this new technology and how whatever that plays into the doing, but.
Corey of ASE (43:39)
Sure.
I think
if we talk about what we call the XEV, and you’ll hear it termed as XEV standard, and the X is a term that was adopted from SAE, which termed an inclusion of all forms of electrified or electrification in the mobile industry. So any type of battery electric vehicle or a hybrid or
Jeff Walter (43:50)
All right.
Okay.
Corey of ASE (44:08)
any other type of EV would be considered an XEV, and that’s what the standard is named after. When we think about that, I don’t think that it would vastly impact that. But I also believe that what you were talking about is certification in general of not being the end goal, but sort of
Jeff Walter (44:12)
Good.
Corey of ASE (44:28)
marking the entry into a certain capability. If you talk about a doctor or someone that has been certified, they go through residency, they go through many years of becoming the doctor that they are. But we also know that out there, just because you have certification, there’s probably someone that is the best skilled person in…
Jeff Walter (44:33)
Right.
Corey of ASE (44:53)
all of existence that can work on a certain topic or understanding of a problem. And there’s also at the same time, there’s someone that’s least qualified to work on that. you know, that becomes the quandary. I think that, you know, we learned a lot from COVID. We learned a lot that I remember when COVID first hit, you know, people went home, buildings were shuttered.
When I returned after a year and a half, my coffee cup was still half filled, although it didn’t look like good coffee anymore. But, you know, well, we say that because that changed how we trained, right? That trained all of a sudden in-person training wasn’t thought of. We didn’t know what we were dealing with. And so that forced all of the
Jeff Walter (45:26)
jeez, lord.
Right.
Corey of ASE (45:45)
educators to really think about how do we communicate in this industry where you can’t get face to face, you can’t get hands on. And we know that the best possible training is one where you partner with others, you watch others as they’re performing a task or a skill, and you learn from that.
Jeff Walter (45:52)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, interesting. So what’s the future hold for you and the ASC when it comes to the certification? What’s next? What’s the next hill to climb?
Corey of ASE (46:17)
I think it’s looking at the advancements in battery technology and systems and have a better understanding of how they separate themselves with hybrid vehicles versus electrified vehicles. We know that the EVs by themselves, you read in the news, you see the news that the adoption probably isn’t where we thought it would be.
as an industry. Different parts of the world are at different stages in that adoption. And we know that there are challenges with not only the EVs themselves, but the people that want EVs from a consumer side. Do they want an internal combustion engine still? Do they want a combination of a hybrid to get best of both worlds?
Is that technology moving more towards hydrogen or some other fuel source? And what about the charging networks? You know, and the charging stations and being able to extend range on an electrified vehicle so that it becomes useful if you’re driving cross country in the rate of charge. so there are a lot of challenges still, I think, for the industry.
ways of looking at that. It’s not going to stand still. We know that. Nothing does.
Jeff Walter (47:34)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s fascinating. I was just thinking of when you said hydrogen, it’s like, it keeps popping up as something that has unlimited potential, but it just never seemed to get there. I remember all the hydrogen buses that came out and they’re still out there, but it’s you know, it’s interesting because I guess that would be another standard that if that takes off, the AAC would be…
We need to develop.
Corey of ASE (48:05)
There’s many different tests that are on the books of future looking. Again, this ideation that occurs because industry, if we start to see a trend and a need, that’s where we assemble teams internally to take a further look and again, partner with the industry to be able to see if this is something that we want to develop the test for.
and the certifications.
Jeff Walter (48:32)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I think that’s a good place to wrap up. You know, I think there’s some really, it’s really interesting how you put together that type of standard and then that certification and then all the downstream things that have to happen and get it well adopted. so kudos and congratulations for that. That’s pretty, that’s pretty impressive. And I, and ⁓ it’s such an interesting career you’ve had. And I love that story about writing, rewriting.
Corey of ASE (48:52)
Thank you.
Jeff Walter (49:00)
That’s amazing. That’s so cool.
Corey of ASE (49:02)
Well, know, and
you know, for the technicians, and I have to say, you know, being a technician at heart my whole life, you never lose that. Technicians are born into this. And I use an analogy that my brother, he’s an artist. And I’ve seen my brother stand before a blank canvas and create a beautiful piece of art. For me, I couldn’t do that. ⁓ However, I could stand before a vehicle and…
Jeff Walter (49:27)
Mm-hmm.
Corey of ASE (49:30)
I can visualize how to disassemble it, how to repair it, where the problems could be, and I could repair a vehicle, I can paint it. There’s many skills that I have that growing up, I thought everyone had those skills. ⁓ It wasn’t until I understood that everyone has a specific uniqueness to them, and that’s what we have to understand in our training and in our testing that
Jeff Walter (49:45)
Bye.
Corey of ASE (49:58)
Reach out and make sure you understand and key into what that person’s abilities are and test for that. Help grow them.
Jeff Walter (50:08)
Yeah, and that’s it. It’s like a great good place to wrap it up. Cory, if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, how are they? see how would they go about doing that?
Corey of ASE (50:18)
You can go to the ASE website and you can communicate that way or if they want to get a hold of me it’s cglassman, one word, c-g-l-a-s-s-m-a-n at a-s-e dot
Jeff Walter (50:30)
All right. Corey of ASE, thank you so much for sharing your time and your knowledge and the journey of putting together a new industry standard that’s a crowning achievement. So thank you very much for sharing that with us.
Corey of ASE (50:40)
Thank you.
Thank you, Jeff, and thank you, everyone.
Jeff Walter (50:44)
And to everybody out there, thanks for listening and we’ll catch you next time.