Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
The automotive industry is evolving faster than ever. Vehicles are more advanced, more electronic, and more software driven than at any point in history. At the same time, employers across the country continue to face a persistent skills gap.
In this episode of the Training Impact Podcast, Jeff Walter sits down with Virginia Oden, Assistant Vice President of ASE Education Foundation, to explore how the organization serves as a national bridge between industry and education. Their conversation highlights accreditation, advisory boards, workforce alignment, and the transformation of technician careers into high skill professions grounded in critical thinking.
Operating under the umbrella of ASE Auto Service Excellence, the education division focuses on strengthening the training pipeline. While ASE is widely known for certifying automotive technicians, this branch concentrates on ensuring that career and technical education programs align with current industry needs.
Founded in response to industry demand, the organization accredits automotive, collision, and truck training programs at both the high school and college level. Accreditation is not mandatory, but it signals that a program meets national standards for curriculum, equipment, instructor qualifications, and industry engagement.
Virginia explains that the Foundation’s role is to facilitate alignment. Educators may not always understand the latest industry shifts. Industry leaders may not fully grasp the realities of academic budgets and instructional hours. Serving as a bridge between those worlds creates productive collaboration.
One of the most practical best practices discussed in the episode is the use of advisory boards. Federal Perkins funding requires some level of community involvement in career tech programs, but accredited programs are encouraged to hold at least two advisory meetings per year.
These meetings bring together instructors, administrators, dealerships, independent shops, parts suppliers, and fleet operators. The purpose is active collaboration.
Industry representatives share hiring needs and technology trends. Educators provide updates on curriculum, budgets, and student placement. These conversations create clarity. An employer might communicate that multi point inspection skills are now essential. An instructor might request equipment support or job shadowing opportunities.
Without structured advisory boards, those conversations might never happen organically.
A key insight from the conversation is that accreditation functions as a credible signal in the marketplace.
Employers have limited time and resources. When deciding where to recruit, a nationally accredited program provides assurance that standards are being met. It signals ongoing instructor development, active advisory engagement, and curriculum alignment with real world demands.
This does not mean non accredited programs lack quality. However, accreditation reduces uncertainty and helps employers invest their time strategically.
For students, that recognition reinforces alignment with workforce expectations and strengthens their transition into employment.
Beyond individual program reviews, the Foundation creates consistency across a fragmented educational landscape. Automotive programs exist in urban technical centers, rural high schools, community colleges, and state career technology systems. Without a unifying framework, quality and alignment can vary significantly.
National standards for equipment, curriculum, and instructor qualifications help ensure that an accredited program in one state operates with the same core expectations as one in another.
For dealership groups and multi location service organizations, that consistency builds confidence in the training pipeline.
The organization also elevates expectations around professionalism. Advisory board discussions extend beyond technical skills to include communication, teamwork, and accountability. Students must be prepared not only to diagnose vehicles but to collaborate effectively in modern service environments.
As electric vehicles and advanced driver assistance systems become more common, clarity around entry level competencies becomes critical. Schools must determine what to teach immediately and what will be developed through employer training. National guidance helps prevent unnecessary spending while maintaining relevance.
The conversation challenges outdated perceptions of automotive careers.
Modern vehicles are computers on wheels. Technicians interpret scan tool data, diagnose electronic systems, and apply advanced problem solving skills. Routine maintenance tasks that once dominated the profession have largely been engineered out.
What remains are higher level diagnostic challenges.
Today’s training demands strong foundations in science, technology, engineering, and math. Students apply algebra, electrical theory, and systems thinking daily. Critical thinking is central to success.
The intellectual demands of automotive careers have increased dramatically. The industry requires analytical thinkers who can adapt to continuous innovation.
The episode also reflects on the resurgence of career and technical education.
For decades, the dominant narrative suggested that four year college degrees were the only path to success. Today, families are rediscovering the value of skilled trades. Automotive careers offer stability, strong earning potential, and advancement opportunities.
By reinforcing standards and strengthening alignment between classroom and career, the Foundation plays a central role in supporting this resurgence.
For dealership owners, service directors, and automotive executives, workforce development is not an abstract issue. It directly affects revenue, customer satisfaction, and operational capacity.
Unfilled technician roles reduce service throughput. Extended repair times impact customer trust. Overworked teams increase burnout and turnover. The skills gap is not theoretical. It is measurable in productivity metrics.
That is why structured alignment between education and industry is so important. When local employers engage with career tech programs, serve on advisory boards, and support accreditation standards, they are not simply helping schools. They are investing in their own long term talent pipeline.
Strong partnerships create predictability. Programs understand what to teach. Employers understand what graduates know. Students enter the workforce with clearer expectations and stronger foundations.
In an industry defined by rapid technological advancement, waiting for talent to appear is not a strategy. Participating in its development is.
Partnership between education and industry requires structure, communication, and shared accountability.
In this episode, Virginia Oden illustrates how national standards, accreditation, and structured advisory engagement help close the skills gap and prepare students for high demand automotive careers.
The result is stronger programs, better prepared technicians, and a more resilient workforce.
For more on the ASE Education Foundation, visit their website at
https://www.aseeducationfoundation.org/
For more from the Training Impact Podcast, follow us on Social Media
https://t-sml.mtrbio.com/public/smartlink/trainingimpactpodcast
Jeff Walter (00:00)
Hi, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast. My guest today is Virginia Oden. Virginia is the Assistant Vice President at the ASC Education Foundation.
Virginia loves to cultivate relationships between industry and education in an effort to end the skills gap, which is a global phenomena. And I’m really looking forward to talking about it. We’re going to really focus on that, that bridge between academia and industry and how does academia, you know, is trying to prepare folks for industry and how do the two meet. that’s the sweet spot of Virginia and what she loves to do. So welcome to the program, Virginia.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (00:37)
Thank you for having me, Jeff. Happy to be here.
Jeff Walter (00:40)
So first off, I’m sure just for the folks out there, what is the ASC Educational Foundation and what’s your role as assistant vice president and how did you end up there?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (00:51)
It was not a straight path. It was a little curvy, but it’s been a good path. So the ASE Education Foundation, we are under the umbrella of ASE Auto Service Excellence, where we certified technicians in auto, collision, truck, parts, all the whole course of the industry within the automotive industry. And the Education Foundation was founded roughly 40 years ago, ASE back in 1972.
by demand of industry. And then the education piece came out because industry was like, we need to be training our students that are in career tech programs at the different state levels for both at the high school and college level. We need to make sure that those programs are teaching to today’s industry needs. And so that’s where the Education Foundation came about with accrediting programs, certifying our instructors. And then later on to the 90s, we started doing entry level
recognized industry testing for our students. So it was a way to show knowledge based for our students and letting industry partners know, these young people have a knowledge base and a skill set to come into your industry prepared with a little bit of a head start compared to hiring somebody off the streets. So that’s where we came about. our duty is to work with industry and education entities all across the nation to help bridge that gap between education industry, like having that conversation.
needs, what our industry needs, and how do we create a program or a system for those students that they’re being prepared for today’s industry needs. That’s what we do.
Jeff Walter (02:19)
And
that’s what we do. And how did you end up at the Education Foundation, ASCE Education Foundation?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (02:25)
So.
It’s my background is over 20 years in recruitment. I have recruited from higher ed and healthcare. But one of my stints was I worked for a family auto group here in Oklahoma. We had 17 manufacturers, two collision centers, a farm, a marina, and we did everything here in the state of Oklahoma. And it was one of the best jobs I’ve ever had. I love it. I still take my car to be serviced at my local dealership. They are still my people. I still get the family discount. ⁓
Jeff Walter (02:48)
Thanks.
That’s very, I’m
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (02:57)
But I got…
Jeff Walter (02:57)
sorry. I was, I was laughing because I’ve talked to a lot of folks that have, you know, multi-unit dealer franchises. This is the first time I heard a farm as part of the, the, the, the broad, you know, like 17 brands, collision centers, you know, all those other things and, and a farm.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (03:07)
⁓
Logistics,
If we had quarter horses, I’m not going to, I’ll keep this PG for the listeners, but ⁓ I had some interesting positions that I’d have to recruit for at the farm. ⁓
Jeff Walter (03:26)
Okay.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (03:27)
I’ll leave it at that. If you’ve ever worked on a farm or know anything about it, you probably can fill in the blanks, but it was amazing. I worked with some wonderfully amazing, talented human beings. And through that, I became heavily involved with Oklahoma CareerTech and our college system with our auto programs, our auto and collision and truck programs. And so I wanted to be the person that those instructors called when they had a top rate student that wanted to get into our industry. so I worked with all of the local
I was seeing what was happening. I was seeing these instructors that were leaving industry, typically taking a huge pay cut, to share their passion with the next generation of technicians.
and creating these state of the art facilities, training centers to truly prep the students for tomorrow’s technician. And seeing the difference that was made when industry was involved in those decisions. Became heavily involved in that. I ended up leaving the dealership not because I didn’t love my job. A different opportunity came up and I took it. And from that, I still continued working with CareerTechs and started educating my billing medical
billing operations like why aren’t you guys involved in CareerTech they do medical medical billing at the CareerTech and they’re like what?
Jeff Walter (04:42)
Right.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (04:42)
So in our own communities, our tax dollars are paying these amazing systems. And so I got involved in that. And then working in health care during COVID was probably not the greatest opportunity for many folks. And during that time, I got recruited away to the Oklahoma Department of CareerTech. The gentleman who had the job there before me had seen me at advisory meetings and saw that I was a little vocal in these meetings, like getting, you know,
Jeff Walter (05:00)
Okay.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (05:11)
getting fellow industry partners excited about helping the students, getting administration to help support our instructors. And he’s like, this is the person we need at CareerTech. And I was like, what are you talking about? I’ve never taught a class. How am I going to instructors, transitioning instructors from industry into the classroom? How am I going to do that?
It was one of the greatest opportunities and jobs I’ve ever had. I didn’t just have auto collision and truck. I had aviation. I had motorcycle. I had Marine. So there comes my Marine back into play. had truck trucking, CDL. And Jeff.
It was the best. just would go to work every day. And this is what I thrive on. I would go to work every day and be surrounded by people who are smarter than I am and just sit there as a sponge and just absorb it. Just learn and learn and learn. Those individuals made me who I am. Like they taught me everything I need so that now ASC got wind of me. And they said, Hey, what we like what you’re doing there in Oklahoma. How about you helping with the, you know, across the rest of the nation? What’s one state to 50? It’s, it’s totally doable.
Jeff Walter (06:10)
How about that?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (06:14)
And you only have to do the three programs, auto collision and truck. You know, can put aside aviation and motorcycle, it’ll be fine. Only. And I said that, that sounds incredible. I love this. I love the idea of having even a bigger impact. And I would not have been able to do without the instructors that I worked with here in the state of Oklahoma. And I still get to work with.
Jeff Walter (06:21)
Yes, only.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (06:36)
And I’m thankful for all of them because they really, they taught me a lot and they trained me well. And so now that’s what I do for ASC Education Foundation. I work with our field managers from across the nation to kind of be that boots on the ground between.
the schools and the industry and help them. And we do a variety of things. We help with SkillsUSA, we help with advisory meetings, we help with the accreditation. Really the goal is to be an extra pair of eyes or pair of hands or whatever, or just a sounding board for our schools and industry partners to help make those connections. Because sometimes educators don’t know who to call and industry doesn’t know who to call. So kind of helping making those connections for them.
Jeff Walter (07:16)
Well, I think, you know, to like along those lines, getting to the crux of the problem, it you to you would think that it would be a clean line between, you know, it, you know, that the academia would know what to do and that the industry would like what they’re doing. But then you, then you realized like, there’s a lot of things working against it, which is like, well, there are two different industries with
two different types of interests and that, and then especially with like say auto-tech, it’s constantly changing and the two groups are separate. what do you see as the biggest, why does it need that level of coordination or what’s the biggest challenges there in getting the coordination?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (07:54)
Yes.
So the biggest challenge is just like in any industry, we all have different acronyms, we all have different terminology. And so right there, there’s a communication issue there. But the big thing with educators, I’m not gonna speak to the instructors. I’m gonna talk more about the administration piece, because sometimes the administration haven’t worked in our industry, may never have worked in industry. And so don’t have that connection, that piece. ⁓
Jeff Walter (08:24)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (08:33)
And their only experience in our industry is taking their vehicle in for service. They may have never seen what a shop looks like. They may not know what goes into that. so, so when we have our instructors are saying, Hey, I need this $35,000 piece of equipment. mean, that’s a, that’s a, or our, curriculum is changing and I need to update my curriculum because Shakespeare hasn’t changed. But our, yes, yes. So, but our, but our, our tech.
Jeff Walter (08:55)
Right, neither has physics 101. The laws of physics have not changed.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (09:01)
Yes, so things so
those types of things. So it’s it’s just having that understanding on the industry side and I I I worked with my service managers and I struggled with this and it’s and it’s a time thing. So I’m telling them the student is in a two year career tech program. So they’re thinking I’m getting a two year career tech.
or a two year tech entry level technician. So they’re thinking, well, there’s 2,080 hours in a year. that’s, you I’m trying to make fast math, 4,160 hours. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. They’re in school for 525 hours a year, maybe. And so it’s that, that understanding. like, remember they don’t go to school, they don’t go to school at Christmas or Thanksgiving and there’s fall break and making the industry aware.
Jeff Walter (09:36)
Right.
Yeah, they
get more than two weeks off.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (09:49)
Right. So it’s having to explain to the service managers that, these are not two full year situations. And even like at a college level, when they are paired, like we in Oklahoma and other states do this, they kind of do a co-op thing where they’re paired with a dealer or a shop. And so they’re like four or eight weeks on. So there’s that rotation. So it’s still not a full two years, but there’s more hands on piece to that. So it’s just educating them on that. I think there’s also
Jeff Walter (10:06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (10:16)
with the on the on the education side, we want to show showcase what we’re doing, but we don’t want to necessarily ask for help. We don’t want to ask like, hey, I don’t know how to like because there some of our instructors, they’ve been out of the field for a while. They may not want to show what their insecurities are. And then on the industry side, they don’t understand education. So they don’t want to ask. They don’t want to give criticism or, be even though, you know,
Good criticism is good. Like it helps to grow the program. That’s what art with accreditation is. And so you get a lot of people pleasing in the middle because everybody wants to, they’re so happy that there’s this opportunity, but sometimes those hard conversations aren’t happening. And so I’ve been in advisory meetings where I’m like, they’re like, okay, well that’s the update. And I raised my hand and said, do you all need anything? What are your students looking for? What are you needing? And they’re like, yeah.
you guys interested in offering some job shadowing for our kids? Like, cause it’s, they’re so, and it’s, and it’s just that, ⁓ that’s why it’s so important to have those advisory meetings to get to build those relationships so that you do get comfortable with each other to say, Hey, I really need you all to be teaching video, multi-point inspections. That’s what our, that’s what our ⁓ OEMs are pushing today. Do you, is there something we can do about that? And hearing those once in needs, because at the end of the day,
Jeff Walter (11:12)
Hahaha
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (11:37)
It’s not about the instructor. It’s really not even about the service manager. It’s about prepping that student to be successful in our industry. And that’s what we need to do. So those two entities have to come together to do the best to support those students going out to be successful.
Jeff Walter (11:51)
Well, and you mentioned advisory meeting. So is that is that an ASC thing or is that happening at the local level? is that? What is what is that advisory meeting?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (11:59)
So advisory meetings, it’s part of Perkins, Perkins Five, where it just says there needs to be some community involvement in the programs. We take it a little bit more sharply. Like Perkins, think they may require one advisory meeting a year and it doesn’t have to be specific to the industry. can be, it’s the funding for CareerTech, sorry. See what I’m saying? you, that’s the whole point. I start talking.
Jeff Walter (12:09)
Okay.
What is Perkins? I’m sorry, I’m not familiar.
Okay, okay.
Ha ha ha ha!
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (12:27)
Start talking gibberish
and you’re like, can you please come back to English? We I mean, I don’t understand this this education link Like who’s Perkins? ⁓ That’s sorry, no see that’s what I mean like that’s the thing like you just start talking and you’re assuming you’re following along as like It’s it’s it’s the federal funding from for CareerTech
Jeff Walter (12:30)
No, I understood the words. just didn’t understand them being young. I’m you know, Sally Perkins, what’s she doing? No, no, no. So.
Yeah.
So Perkins is what again?
okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. So that’s, that’s access to federal funding. So then federal funding goes through the local, ⁓ school, whether it’s a high school college or, or standalone vocational, right. Is that okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. And then, and then, and then, and then in, in getting that money, they have guidelines of what you should be doing in order to, ⁓ it’s sort of Perkins guideline. It’s a federal guideline of, you want to accept that money? You should have some type of.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (13:04)
Yes.
Yes, yes, sorry about that.
Jeff Walter (13:25)
and you’re industry tech, career tech training, you should have some type of relationship with the industry. Is that okay?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (13:33)
Right,
yes, to boil it all down, there shouldn’t be a CareerTech program that isn’t going to be supported by industry. So, no.
Jeff Walter (13:43)
Gotcha.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (13:43)
don’t
put an underwater welding program in Nebraska. I mean, you can do a welding program, but there might be difficulty with underwater because it’s not on the ocean level. That’s probably a really bad example. may cut that. But I mean, I was like, why, why? I know. was like, to, to shake, that. But you see what I’m saying? Like, cause if you’re not,
Jeff Walter (13:57)
You know you get somebody from the runs the underwater welding in Nebraska going we’re right by the Mississippi River we got a new bridge But I get you you know I get well your but your point is
We get back to my original question the the advisory board is more at the local level with the local Training program and then you want to have some local employers
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (14:13)
you
Yes. Who’s?
who hire your students.
Jeff Walter (14:24)
that are
hiring your students that are representing the, that are the face of the industry. to, I mean, so to your example, if there wasn’t a, if you put that school in Nebraska and you know, it would be hard to find a local industry, if the local industry is not there, then it’s hard to get that, that those advisory meetings.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (14:29)
Yes. So.
and to support and to place those students into jobs and to support. then what the advisory board does is it’s a way for there to be that come together between the education and industry to have the conversations. Here’s what’s happening in education. And then industry is saying, here’s what’s happening in industry today. Here’s what we’re looking for. Because like I said, some of those educators have been out of the industry for several years and they need to be up to date on what’s happening because
Jeff Walter (14:50)
Right.
Okay.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (15:14)
we’re no longer working on carburetors, right? So they need to kind of have that piece. And then with ASE accreditation, we require two a year, just because we think you need to talk about…
in the fall talk about the amazing things that you’ve implemented. Like because of their record, the advisory board’s recommendation, maybe it’s update, you know, update training modules, whatever it may be. Also update on where we’ve placed our students and where they’re going. And then the spring is, hey, we need to place our students and what do we need to update for going into our new next year budget? So having those conversations. ⁓ The advisory board and the beautiful thing about our industry, which I
Jeff Walter (15:47)
Mm-hmm.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (15:53)
I love is that it’s not just your dealerships and your shops. It’s our parts department, our parts stores. It’s our fleets. People don’t realize how many opportunities there are in our industry to employ our students.
And so people think, I only have one dealership in my town. Well, not everybody’s going to that one dealership to get their car repaired. I bet there are some independent shops. I bet there’s different things. They’re going to their NAPAs and their O’Reillys to do it themselves. There’s opportunities within our industry. And so those advisory boards are just a great way to have conversations. One of the big things we ask our instructors to do is talk about budget.
because an educator’s budget is just a small percentage of what a shop’s annual budget would be. And it’s that kind of black and white, back to the communication piece, to understand. Like we had a situation where there was a misordering of shop racks at this shop. And the instructor mentioned consumables. And it’s like, for example, shop racks. the shop owner was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
We had a mistake. ordered, you know, instead of 10 boxes, they ordered 100, whatever the case was like, you mean I can donate these shop rags and it make a difference for you? Yes. Like, so it’s having those conversations is where that communication gap can be shrunk. Words are hard. It can be shrunk so that they can, they’re like, you mean me donating some shop rags is beneficial to your program? Absolutely.
⁓ That’s where that comes in with the advisory. Those conversations wouldn’t happen necessarily organically if there wasn’t those conversations and those happening in the advisory meetings.
Jeff Walter (17:25)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, it’s interesting because it’s one of those things that you don’t think about. you know, were taught, you know, that traditionally, if you go into an academic setting, you know, it’s a textbook. That’s the material you need. And the textbooks don’t change that often. Like we were saying, the laws of physics and physics 101 are still the same. You know, what happened during the American Revolution didn’t change.
Uh, in the last, you know, now textbooks get updated all the time, but, that’s a really big difference than sitting there going, well, I’m, you don’t have in general in academia, you don’t have consumables, you know, the kids that are studying history or, or that they’re not consuming something like shop rags. so having budget for that is unusual in an academic setting. And, know, you don’t.
Usually have a classroom that has over $100,000 worth of equipment You know and and then you go hey EV is Right, that’s I’m saying that’s that’s just the tooling and then and then and I was gonna say and then like Electronic electric vehicles come on board. They’re like hey, I need another hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff Like that doesn’t usually that doesn’t happen in most classrooms But you know, it’s amazing. Let’s go ahead
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (18:36)
And that just may be the tools. That just may be the tools.
Yeah, exactly. I
was going to say, then it’s also, you know, there’s, there’s this tendency, do we need to be teaching this? Do we need to be doing this? Well, your advisory committee is going to tell you yes or no, they’re going to, they’re going to keep you up to date what’s happening. So as an instructor, you know, sometimes it’s like, well, do I need to teach everything that I’ve learned that I know from my 30 years in this industry? And the, in the industry is like, no,
We need you to teach them up to here and we will take it from there. And so that is also a burden off of the instructor to be like, I don’t have to teach them. I just need to teach them EV safety. I don’t have to teach them about anything beyond that, which is a cost saving for the program. But it’s also because, hey, don’t set that student up for something that they’re not gonna probably get to do.
Jeff Walter (19:35)
Right, right.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (19:41)
the first year in, right? So it’s those kinds of conversations too, because then the industry knows what is happening in the classroom. So when that student comes to them for a job, they kind of already know where they are and can teach them from that. And then the instructor doesn’t feel like they have to teach, put 30 years into a student and like, you know, 500 hours. So.
Jeff Walter (19:42)
Okay.
Right, right.
Yeah, what
do they, what do they actually need to know? They don’t, right. They don’t, they don’t need an electrical engineering degree to work on an electric vehicle. That’s just like, but there are things they do need to know. So, okay. So going back to the general thing, you have the, you have academia and you have industry, academia is preparing folks in these job programs for, for jobs. And we’re talking about correct tech jobs in Europe.
case for the ASE auto tech jobs and collision jobs and parts jobs. And, ⁓ and, and what I heard is, okay, one good best practice is, are these, ⁓ advisory boards and going beyond the minimum requirement of the Perkins grant money to like really have a structured board where you’ve got your local industry representing local needs to these, academic institutions.
that are primarily feeding people into the local job market. Right? Is that a good way of thinking of it? And now, and that, guess that can happen at any industry, but then you have something interesting in auto, you have the ASC and you have your educational foundation. So, so you have that going on at what can happen in any industry, like you were saying earlier with medical billing, right? So how does the ASC education foundation
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (20:59)
Yep, absolutely.
Yes.
All
Jeff Walter (21:21)
What other challenges, what are the best practices and how does the ISC Education Foundation help facilitate all that?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (21:28)
I think some of the hardest challenges is if you, know, it’s the communication piece. For example, you you’ll have industry, local industry who knows ASC and they know ASC certifications, but they didn’t know about accrediting a program. So they may not know.
like that we have that piece of it. They may assume that the education piece is scholarships and that’s not our game, we connect. literally have a webinar every year to share all the different scholarship opportunities that there are for our students. But we’re not a scholarship warehouse type thing. We work on the programs to make sure those students are getting the training they need to get into industry. I think sometimes that’s a communication issue because we’re
not a requirement just like ASC certifications. It’s just a way that for technicians to say not only do I know I can do it and I say I can do it now I have a cert that says so and that’s kind of what accreditation does. For me it’s when I talk to when I talk to instructors like well why do I need to be accredited and I tell them there’s here’s the thing you don’t have to be accredited however
we are a way to be a support for you. So there’s the instructor who’s the subject matter expert who has transitioned from industry into the classroom to teach the next generation, right? And his administration may have no idea what he does, what that looks like, right? So your advisory board is your first level of defense to say, hey, this is what we need and this is what we do. And then accreditation is that from a national level, this is what the nation says to support that instructor. So it’s just like, ⁓
So if anything changes, if administration changes, if advisory meeting boards change, instructors change, there’s that glue that kind of keeps it all stuck together. Now from an industry perspective, for me when I was a recruiter,
In the greater metro Oklahoma City area, there’s five, maybe six different career texts I could spend my time at. When I was picking where I was going to spend my time, I don’t get to go see every shop or every school. So it was easier for me to pick the ones that were accredited because I already know they’re meeting a national standard. And so from an industry perspective, time is money. And if I’m like, well, here’s the schools that are within a 50-mile radius of me,
Jeff Walter (23:39)
Right.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (23:48)
these are accredited, I already know they’re meeting a standard. So I may not be able to help the other schools, which is a detriment to them, because they may not know I exist. They may not know I even exist or that I’m looking for technicians.
Jeff Walter (24:00)
so that’s interesting. mean, if I hear what you’re saying, the school accreditation by, know, mean, the AC is really actually very amazing organization that how, how well respected it is in, the industry. yeah, I’ve been involved in a number of industries over my career and there’s, there are, you know, every industry has their, you know, ASC equivalent, let’s say. but since a lot of them, it’s there, they’re more of a.
They’re, they’re, they’re more of a place to go chat about the industry rather than an accrediting agency that makes sure that people at the ground level have a certain level of, you know, are, are, are performing at a certain level, which is really amazing. But if, but if I, if I hear what you’re saying, it’s interesting. the accreditation becomes a, credible signal to the local industry that this is a program I, you know,
If I’m trying to decide which programs to support, the accreditation becomes a signal to the local industry that this is a program that we’re supporting because they’ve already achieved a certain level of excellence. That doesn’t mean the non-accredited hasn’t, but that would have to be demonstrated to me some other way.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (25:12)
No, not at all.
Jeff Walter (25:19)
Like you said, time is money. And so now I have to invest time to see if the other one is up to snuff or am I going to end up I, as the industry participant, going to spend a lot of my energy doing something they could have gotten had they got uncertified. Right. Is that a good way of thinking? So that’s ⁓ another best practice I kind of pull out of this is, is if you’re looking at not just within the auto sector or the vehicle tech sector.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (25:37)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (25:48)
But I’m just thinking of other sectors. it’s really interesting that you end up cert that ASC ended up certifying schools or programs. And that gives a credible signal to the local industry that this is a program worth supporting. It’s not that the other ones aren’t, but it’s that credible signal thing. Right. And like I always use certification. I was interesting. was, when I was in grad school, I took a, a, negotiations course and a professor said,
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (25:51)
Absolutely.
Jeff Walter (26:17)
What do you think your degree is? What does your degree mean? And yeah, we went to pretty good school and everybody’s like, oh, yeah, we’re going to rule the world someday, blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah, that type of stuff. And he goes, no, it’s a credible signal because we were talking, it was a negotiations course, we were talking about credible skills. Your degree is nothing more than a credible signal to a potential employer that you have some minimal level
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (26:26)
⁓ you
Jeff Walter (26:47)
of knowledge. And, you could hear the air go out of everybody’s balloon, right? Everybody’s ego. like, but it’s important because that credential, because, you know, it’s, it’s where’s that level of excellence. What is that minimum level of knowledge and excellence? Right. And, and it’s interesting that the AC is accrediting not only the industry professionals, but, training programs. And that’s fascinating.
I think, and it’s interesting, I never thought it from that perspective. just thought of it, you know, I always thought it from the perspective of the school going, oh, you know, well, it’s something you’d want to get because it would help attract students because you know, it’s like, you know, and it’s, it’s also works on the other side. So that’s really fascinating. Interesting.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (27:32)
Well, and I would say too, if I have an employer that’s local, just because the school isn’t accredited does not mean get involved.
get involved with those schools. Because then you can make that, because sometimes you’re like, well, if I have again, ASC is that like the advisory board supports the instructor, ASC supports both the advisory board and the instructor. Because when we do the accreditation, when we’re doing our on-site evaluation, we see the advisory board meeting minutes because you know what they say, if it isn’t written down, it never happened. And we can say to the administrator, it looks like your advisory board has recommended XYZ
So now, and all this does is, all it does is it supports the program, which is all about program improvement, the instructor, the advisory, and at the end, the end of all of this, it’s a better opportunity for those students. So that’s where it all comes back to. And I will say, when we talk about college degrees, because I know that’s always like the college versus career tech and things like that. I am…
Jeff Walter (28:23)
Yeah, that’s yeah, which which yeah
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (28:34)
I will say when I would work as a recruiter, we would talk about job descriptions. And I would say like with the medical billing, they wanted them to have a degree. But the degree didn’t really apply to what they were doing. And I would tell them a degree also shows that you have the ability to set short term and long term goals and achieve them. so, you know, and with CareerTech, it’s like you get, it’s the same thing. You get into a program, you achieve certain entry level certifications, maybe
professional level certs and you get that opportunity to, and you have a skill set that’s provable because you can show it off.
Jeff Walter (29:08)
Yeah. Well,
I mean, that’s the thing. Like it’s interesting, in the one hand, kind of, what I was saying to your point, like it devalues the assert a little, but it actually increases assert a little because how else do you get that credible signal to the market, to industry, to an employer, to anybody else? The credible signals are credible because they’re difficult to, they’re showing something that you can’t
Otherwise do that. What’s that’s what makes the signal credible and to get this certification. It’s like you said, it’s like you had to go to set long-term goals, short-term goals, stick to something over a long period of time, um, be committed to it. And then, you know, and hopefully learn something. But, you know, I don’t view either them as an either or I view them as, you know, I view them as all of this is and, and then the question becomes.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (29:56)
know.
Jeff Walter (30:02)
What is, and I, the way they think of it, I always think of it as well. What is the value of that accreditation? You know, what is it signaling? Right. And, ⁓ but, but by the flip, by on, on the other side, it’s like, don’t have, but just because you don’t have a, an accreditation or a certification, you can be Einstein. You can be the hardest working, smartest person on the planet and have.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (30:24)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (30:28)
never graduated high school. know, it’s it’s it’s it’s but now you have to come up with other ways to credibly signal to others. And so but it’s interesting. So, you know, we have a few minutes left. So let’s.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (30:30)
Absolutely.
Jeff Walter (30:42)
So we’ve got the two, we’ve talked about a couple of best practices. Where do you see this going forward? in, you know, or, or, or the tech training in general, I, I feel like it’s we’re at the beginning of a resurgence. I feel like it kind of got put in the back closet for a couple of decades since no child left behind. And, and, and I, and it’s, it’s, and it’s just talking about credible signals, you know, cause everybody was supposed to go to a four year college, right?
and get no vocational training. And then it was kind of, and I kind of feel like it’s not an either or thing, but I feel like the credible signal of a college degree is diminished over the decades. It’s not worth what it used to be, I think, I feel. And I feel like there’s, well, again, yes, there’s some majors that are very vocationally oriented, right? Like if you come out as a software, as an engineer,
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (31:27)
Depends on what your major was, depends on what you’re studying. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (31:38)
You know, like it’s, there’s a lot of physicians that are hard to get if you don’t. But, ⁓ well, where I was going with that though is like going into the future. It feels like, I feel like there’s this resurgence of interest. Are you, are you seeing that and how do you see that going forward?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (31:54)
I think there’s two pieces I would say to that. cars will always be cool. The things our industry does will always be cool. And even though there’s been a little bit of a dip, like I will say when I worked for the dealership, you’d be surprised at how many 16 year olds did not have their driver’s license. And I remember like I could count the days when I could get my license. ⁓ Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Jeff Walter (32:14)
I got mine on my birthday.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (32:18)
But there are still kids that there is still freedom there. There is still that opportunity and cars are cool. That will never change. And they’re getting cooler and their computers on wheels. think that what is detrimental to that is there is still this misunderstanding of what knowledge we need to be in our industry.
We need those engineering minds. We need those students that are, you know, technically inclined because what we do every day in our industry is science, technology, engineering, and math. We just don’t, I joke with people. said if we were teaching fractions with wrenches and ratchet sets, people would learn fractions so much faster. But we do that every day.
Jeff Walter (32:50)
Yeah.
I never thought of that.
That’s so true. That’s so true.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (33:03)
It’s true, but
the minute you use the word algebra, some students’ brains, because they’ve been probably put in a box somewhere, they say algebra, and it’s like, I can’t do that. And you’re doing Ohm’s Law and all these other algebraic equations. And it’s like, you’re doing it every day. it’s teaching the counselors and the parents and the teachers that if you have that student that is
interested in engineering, interested in technology, you cannot go wrong going into an automotive program because you’re going to learn those hands-on connections. It’s like having lab in chemistry.
Jeff Walter (33:41)
Right.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (33:41)
It’s just putting those connections together. And I will tell you there’s not a technician alive that doesn’t wish an engineer had been in an auto class to understand that our bodies do not contort in a weird way to get into an engine to change things. there’s a ⁓ foundation there. even if you don’t have interest in becoming an auto technician, but you have interest in auto, so you want to work for Ford or GM as an engineer, this will give you that preparation to move
to that. It gives you those foundational tools that you need. We need more of those young people coming into our programs because then they can see all the opportunities. Maybe you never want to work on a vehicle, but you have a love of what we do and you want to be that I jokingly refer to my service writers as bilingual so that you can talk to your technician, but you can talk to your customer and have that comfort that’s there so they understand what’s happening with their vehicle and they know that they can trust
that their vehicles are gonna come off safe. So there’s the consumer piece of it. But they’re not gonna know all that until they step into one of our auto programs, auto-clutch or truck programs across the nation and find out just how amazing our industry is. If you would have said to me years ago that I would be doing this every day and loving every minute of it, I would have been like, but how? I wasn’t even allowed to go to the CareerTech when I was in high school.
Because I was college bound. And so what opportunities did I miss? But here I am saying, this is such an amazing opportunity. it’s a job that won’t go away. It won’t go away. AI is not going to fix our vehicles.
Jeff Walter (35:21)
Right. Well, you hit on a couple of things. One is, yes, somebody’s going to actually still have to do something. And so I was interviewing somebody recently in the auto sector and they had been an auto tech and it was like, never had to worry about a job ever. Always had a job. But the other thing too, as you were talking, that just struck me.
is I think a lot of us for a lot of these technician jobs or skilled trade jobs, we still have this mental model in our head of like 1950s or something. And one of the things that just dawned on me was the job has changed tremendously and you need a tremendous amount of intellectual horsepower because all the
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (36:05)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (36:08)
routine day-to-day brainless stuff has been engineered out and taken over by electronics. you know, like in the old days when you used to like tighten your timing belt and re like, like that doesn’t happen anymore. You know, like, well, like I remember just as when I was like, you know, like all these simple things I did as a kid with my car, change spark plugs, re-gap them, timing belt, you know.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (36:29)
Right.
Jeff Walter (36:34)
That doesn’t happen anymore. No techs do that because you don’t do that because the technology under the hood has gotten so sophisticated. Now it’s your pretty sophisticated. Now that same tech, that same mechanic, they’re sophisticated. The amount of skills they need are much more sophisticated than a 1950s mechanic. And then I was thinking about the same thing on the factory floor. A couple of years ago, I had an opportunity to go to a couple of different ⁓ engine plants.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (36:36)
No.
Jeff Walter (37:02)
And there was one that was exactly what you thought it would be. Chain driven assembly line, six people’s at every station. Somebody’s putting a cylinder there. Somebody’s mallet and banging the cylinder into, I mean, the piston into the cylinder. Yeah. It’s, what it’s that it’s what you think of. then on the other end of the spectrum, it just blew me away. It’s the same 150 steps to make an engine. But like instead of six people at every station, it was one person at every six stations.
And that person was a technician. They weren’t taking a rubber mallet and banging pistons into a cylinder. They were diagnosing and fixing problems with all the automation that’s doing all that manual stuff. like, and I just dawned on me what you just said about on the auto tech. It’s like, that guy or gal that’s doing that is not the factory worker from the 1950s.
They are a highly skilled person with that, that can do that diagnosis and correction versus the person that would just take a rubber mallet and bang pistons into a cylinder. Right. And I think it’s, and I think it’s the same thing with a lot of the, you know, what we’re seeing with all these technician or skills, you know, the skills gap. I think part of the gap is it’s requiring much more, intellectual horsepower.
than it used to because it’s much more sophisticated than it used to. And then the training is much more sophisticated. So I never thought I’d never thought of it that way before. What do you think about that?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (38:30)
and
Well, absolutely. that’s the, when you talk, blew, I’m not going to say I was talking with one of my diesel instructors with one of his students. And I had another instructor there that was not a diesel instructor or anywhere in the auto industry, but critical thinking is a big thing that gets thrown around in certain things. And I used, said, my gosh, the, what, how the student came in, explained the issue. He, he walked through it, uses critical thinking skills. said, what an outstanding example of critical
Jeff Walter (38:48)
All right.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (38:58)
thinking. Well, this instructor from another industry was like, they use critical thinking and diesel. And I was like, how do think they diagnose? Like they have to work through these problems. It is an extreme use of critical thinking skills. And the other piece with our accreditation with our tech, with our instructors, we require 20 hours of technical training per year, because we also want to make sure that our instructors are keeping up to snuff with what’s happening with within the industry.
Jeff Walter (39:03)
Yeah.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (39:27)
Plus they enjoy that because…
really, truly our industry, we are a bunch of life-learning learners because the vehicles keep changing. you talk to, if you talk to a technician, if you talk to an instructor, I hope you enjoy this, because if not, you might get bored to tears. I love it. But they talk about how things are changing, and they talk about different vehicle models, and remember when they did this? And it’s like they have that knowledge, because when you’re working on a vehicle, you have to go back and see all the history of where this has come so that you can help to process and diagnose. Well, maybe it’s this.
Like I followed the, you know, but like, but I’ve seen this before because, that’s all that brain power. Plus, I went to that training and there’s also collaboration with other technicians. Like, Hey, have you seen this before? There is competition. Yes. But there’s also like, mentorship is huge. Like, what is this? I’ve never seen this before. What could this be? Or I’ve, I’ve done, I’ve gone through my trials and errors and I’m still not fixing this help. And that
Jeff Walter (40:00)
Yes.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (40:25)
That is, that’s huge. That I think doesn’t get acknowledged enough as the collaboration and mentorship that is an opportunity in our industry too.
Jeff Walter (40:26)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. You know, you just triggered another thought in my head, just thinking about vehicles. I love it. Well, because, well, I’m just thinking of that, that evolution of the technician to a, a, a high critical thinking, high skilled critical thinking role. Like you’re not, like you’re not doing, and part of the problem, part of the problem, or part of the reason is the vehicles have gotten better. Right? Like, like, like just sitting there going,
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (40:42)
Thank you.
Yeah, ⁓
Jeff Walter (40:59)
You’re not doing the same repair 80 million times that you used to do because every single like my little example, every single car needed their spark plugs changed every 10,000 miles. And that’s a fairly rote thing. And you’re doing it six hours a day, just doing these rote things. No, like I can’t remember when I ever changed the fricking spark plugs in my car. like, well, whenever I had them changed recently because they go a hundred thousand miles without being changed. So
The problems that the techs are fixing are so much more, not only is everything leveled up, but they’re so much more complicated than they used to be. Because all that wrote, because the quality of the vehicles have gone up and all that wrote stuff is, that’s not a problem anymore. It’s the complicated, it’s all complicated now. Which is why weekend mechanics can’t do things.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (41:49)
No, I mean, there’s I used to be able to do some stuff on my own and there’s still some things I’ll do on my own. But now I’m like, I just don’t have a I don’t have the tool set. I don’t have the scan tool and what they offer at the local parts is not going to suffice. so I’m and again, I go to my old dealership. Like it’s like it’s like going to see a family friend. So it’s a bonus. But it’s like.
Jeff Walter (41:50)
Yeah. Yeah.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (42:09)
Just take care of it. I trust you. know you’re to take care of me. Just take care of it. And I do kind of miss those days where I could do the things myself, but you know, it’s, it’s nice to know that I can take my vehicle in and know that it’s going to get serviced right the first time and not create frustration for me figuring it out. So.
Jeff Walter (42:24)
Well,
well, that’s where I’m going. Like, like when I used to be able to do it myself, it was these relatively rote things that once you learned it, you can do it a million times, but you had to do it a million times. You had to constantly readjust your breaks. You had to constantly readjust your time. You had to cut like, and, and, and now you don’t. And so what’s left for, for the professional, it’s all the hard stuff.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (42:35)
Yes!
Jeff Walter (42:51)
That’s all they do is the hard, know, again, if you go back like 60 years, the stuff they’re handling now would happen every now and again. Now it’s that’s what they do daily. And it’s, and it requires that higher level critical thinking skills. That’s I, it’s, it’s interesting. I never thought about it from that perspective. That’s a really, that’s, that’s really cool. Well, you know,
We’re wrapping up. here. I appreciate your time. That was a really fun conversation. I really enjoyed it. Hey, if folks want to get a hold of you, where would they go? What’s the website or where you are on LinkedIn or all that good stuff?
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (43:14)
Yes.
I loved it.
Okay, don’t know, Virginia Oden, O-D-E-N. can reach out to me via email, which is my first initial V, last name, Oden. So it looks like Voden at aseducation.org. I don’t know what my LinkedIn is, but I’m Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation on LinkedIn. And then of course, aseducation, I think it’s aseducationfoundation.org is our website.
Jeff Walter (43:42)
Okay.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (43:48)
And but just Google us as they say and so we’re available and happy to help if you’re not. I I cover a lot of the different states. We call them orphan states that don’t have a field manager, but I work with all the field managers so you know you can reach out to them directly or or I’m happy to help anybody. We’re all here to help everyone industry and schools alike. Thank you.
Jeff Walter (44:09)
Well, Virginia, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk to me. really do appreciate it.
Virginia Oden of ASE Education Foundation (44:14)
I enjoyed this a lot. Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate it.
Jeff Walter (44:17)
And to everybody out there, thanks for listening and we’ll catch you around next time.