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Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
What makes a presentation memorable isn’t necessarily the information being shared, but how that information connects with the people listening. A speaker can have years of experience, valuable insights, and beautifully designed slides, yet still struggle to make an impact if the audience doesn’t understand why the message matters.
In this episode of the Training Impact Podcast, host Jeff Walter welcomes Andrew Chesnutt, founder of The Authority Forge, for a conversation about the relationship between communication, learning, and storytelling. Drawing on nearly two decades in the learning industry, Chesnutt shares how an unexpected career path shaped his approach to high-stakes presentations and why understanding people is just as important as understanding the material you’re presenting.
Their discussion also explores the realities of entrepreneurship, the importance of honest feedback, and the growing role of artificial intelligence in a world where producing information has become easier than ever.
Andrew Chesnutt didn’t set out to build a business around presentation strategy. His career began in technology, working as a junior programmer for a medical technology startup, where he quickly realized that being good at something didn’t necessarily mean he wanted to spend his life doing it. Although he had the technical ability, programming wasn’t particularly fulfilling, and he eventually began exploring other opportunities.
After returning to his hometown of Buffalo, New York, Chesnutt accepted a call center position that he expected would be temporary. A few months later, he noticed an opening for a training coordinator and decided to apply, drawing on his previous experience as a college teaching assistant. What started as an opportunity to try something different became the beginning of a career in learning and development.
Over the following years, he facilitated training for thousands of employees and became fascinated by the differences between presentations that connected with an audience and those that didn’t. He noticed that even when the information was valuable, the way it was communicated could determine whether people understood it or disengaged entirely. Combining his technical background with his growing experience in instructional design, he began approaching presentations as something that could be carefully structured around how people learn.
Following a significant layoff, Chesnutt decided to pursue entrepreneurship, initially establishing Nickel City Learning Solutions as an outsourced e-learning development business. Over time, that work evolved into Authority Forge, which now specializes in developing high-stakes presentations for entrepreneurs and corporations, including investor pitches, sales presentations, and other situations where communicating effectively can influence important decisions.
As Chesnutt reflects on the development of Authority Forge, the conversation shifts toward the less glamorous realities of entrepreneurship. Building a business requires persistence, but it also involves periods of uncertainty when even experienced entrepreneurs begin questioning their decisions.
Chesnutt recalls a particularly difficult period when a trusted friend offered advice that changed his perspective: “The only way you can screw this up is to quit.” The message gave him permission to keep moving forward without needing to know exactly how everything would turn out, reinforcing the importance of taking action even when success isn’t guaranteed.
Walter adds an important perspective, noting that there’s a fine line between determination and stubbornness. Entrepreneurs need the confidence to pursue their ideas, but they also need enough humility to recognize when new information challenges their assumptions.
For Chesnutt, that balance comes from surrounding himself with people who are willing to offer honest, sometimes uncomfortable feedback. He describes friendships where direct criticism is viewed as a form of respect because it helps uncover weaknesses before they become serious problems. When one friend suggested that AI might eventually replace his presentation business, Chesnutt didn’t necessarily agree, but the conversation prompted him to think more carefully about how Authority Forge differentiates itself.
It’s a lesson that extends beyond entrepreneurship. Whether developing a business, introducing a new training initiative, or leading organizational change, progress often depends on being willing to question what we think we know.
When Walter asks what makes a presentation successful, Chesnutt explains that his first question to any new client is why the presentation is being created. Before discussing slides, visuals, or talking points, he wants to understand what the presenter hopes to accomplish and what the audience should take away from the experience.
That distinction matters because a presentation intended to secure investment requires a different approach than one designed to educate employees or inspire a room full of entrepreneurs. Without a clearly defined objective, it’s easy to create something that contains plenty of information but never leads the audience toward a meaningful conclusion.
At Authority Forge, Chesnutt begins by identifying the desired outcome and the central idea that should guide the presentation. He compares the approach to developing a TED Talk, where one important message provides a consistent thread throughout the experience rather than competing with numerous disconnected ideas.
Walter then raises another consideration: the presenter’s reason for speaking may be very different from the audience’s reason for listening. A business owner might want to sell a product, while the potential customer is primarily concerned with solving a problem. Similarly, a trainer may want employees to complete a course, while employees want to understand how the information will help them perform their jobs.
Chesnutt explains that understanding both perspectives is essential because people are more likely to engage when they recognize how a message relates to their own needs. The challenge is to connect the presenter’s objective with something the audience genuinely cares about.
One of the strongest themes throughout the conversation is that effective communication requires more than explaining something accurately. It also requires understanding how people process information and what motivates them to pay attention.
Chesnutt emphasizes that audiences bring different experiences, expectations, and challenges into every presentation. A corporate leadership team may respond differently than a group of franchise owners, even when both audiences are being introduced to the same concept. Recognizing those differences allows a presenter to adjust the message without losing its central purpose.
This approach closely reflects the principles of instructional design, where successful learning begins with understanding the learner and identifying what they need to accomplish. Rather than simply organizing everything an expert knows about a subject, the goal is to build a path that helps someone move from their current understanding toward a desired outcome.
For business leaders and training professionals, the implication is significant. Communication becomes more effective when it’s designed around what people need to understand, rather than how much information the presenter wants to share.
The conversation becomes particularly interesting when Chesnutt shares an example of a client he helped prepare for a TED Talk. The woman had become the first to climb the seven second summits, the second-highest mountain on each continent, while also navigating the responsibilities and challenges of being a single mother of seven children and an entrepreneur.
Although her accomplishments were remarkable, Chesnutt explains that the most compelling part of the presentation wasn’t simply what she had achieved, but the experiences that led her there. By sharing the obstacles she faced and how she overcame them, her story offered something audiences could connect with personally.
Someone listening might initially see her achievements as completely beyond their own abilities, but hearing about her struggles could change that perspective. Instead of focusing only on the distance between their lives and hers, they might begin recognizing qualities and experiences they have in common.
Walter connects this idea to the way people naturally understand the world through stories. While facts and bullet points can communicate information, narratives give that information context, making it easier for listeners to connect new ideas with experiences they already understand.
For Chesnutt, storytelling is an essential part of creating presentations that resonate. Whether he’s helping someone develop a motivational keynote or an investor pitch, he looks for ways to build a narrative that gives the audience a reason to care about the message.
The same principle applies to employee training, leadership development, and organizational communication, where a relevant example can make a complicated concept feel more practical and meaningful.
Even the most knowledgeable presenter can lose an audience by trying to communicate too much at once. Chesnutt explains that cognitive load plays an important role in presentation design because people have a limited capacity to process unfamiliar information.
The challenge is that cognitive overload doesn’t always produce an obvious reaction. Rather than interrupting to say they’re confused, audience members may simply disengage, leaving the presenter unaware that the message is no longer connecting.
This is particularly relevant when communicating technical concepts or developing information-heavy training. What seems straightforward to an experienced professional may require considerable mental effort from someone encountering the material for the first time.
Chesnutt approaches this challenge by considering how information is organized and whether the presentation gives people enough context to understand what they’re hearing. Depending on the objective, that may involve simplifying explanations, focusing on fewer ideas, or using stories to make complex information more approachable.
The goal isn’t to remove important details, but to present them in a way that supports understanding rather than overwhelming the audience.
As the discussion turns toward artificial intelligence, Walter and Chesnutt explore how technology is changing the way professionals develop and communicate information.
Chesnutt acknowledges that AI has become a valuable part of his own workflow, particularly when organizing notes, summarizing material, and handling repetitive tasks. By reducing the time spent on administrative work, he can devote more attention to the strategic and creative aspects of presentation development.
However, he also cautions against assuming that producing content quickly is the same as communicating effectively. AI may be capable of generating an entire presentation, but in his experience, it doesn’t consistently demonstrate the judgment needed to understand an audience, establish a meaningful narrative, or determine which information will make the greatest impact.
Walter shares a similar observation, explaining that AI allows him to spend more time on higher-value work that requires deeper thought. Both recognize the opportunities created by the technology while questioning what happens when organizations begin relying on it without sufficient human oversight.
For Authority Forge, the distinction reinforces the importance of human expertise. Technology can assist with research, organization, and content development, but the responsibility for shaping a message that connects with people still requires thoughtful strategy.
For training professionals, the same principle applies. AI may accelerate the creation of learning materials, but effective training still depends on understanding the audience, establishing meaningful objectives, and designing experiences that help people apply what they’ve learned.
As the interview draws to a close, Walter reflects on how the principles Chesnutt applies to high-stakes presentations can also improve everyday communication. While an investor pitch or major sales presentation may carry obvious consequences, the way leaders communicate with employees or trainers introduce new ideas can have an equally meaningful impact over time.
That’s what makes the work of Authority Forge relevant to such a broad audience. The underlying challenge isn’t limited to public speaking or presentation design, but extends to any situation where one person needs to help another understand something important.
Throughout the conversation, Chesnutt’s experiences illustrate how effective communication develops through curiosity, experimentation, and a willingness to keep learning. His journey from programming to corporate training and entrepreneurship also reinforces the idea that expertise becomes more valuable when it can be translated into something useful for others.
Ultimately, the discussion between Jeff Walter and Andrew Chesnutt offers a reminder that great presentations aren’t defined by how polished they look or how much information they contain. Their real value comes from helping people understand why something matters and giving them the clarity and confidence to act on it.
Whether you’re building a business, designing training, or preparing an important presentation, the most meaningful results begin with understanding the people you’re trying to reach.
Learn more about Andrew Chesnutt and his work at Authority Forge: https://theauthorityforge.com/
For more from the Training Impact Podcast, follow us on Social Media – https://t-sml.mtrbio.com/public/smartlink/trainingimpactpodcast
Jeff Walter (00:00)
Hi, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast, where we explore scaling performance through training infrastructure. My guest today is Andrew Chestnut.
Andrew is the founder of the Authority Forge. He brings nearly two decades of experience in the learning industry to help experts communicate their knowledge through webinars, podcasts, and storytelling. Andrew’s work connects with a question we often explore on the show, which is how do we turn what you know into something that helps others understand, engage, and take action?
For training professionals and business leaders, that means thinking carefully about how we present our ideas, build credibility, and make learning relevant to the people we’re trying to teach. So I’m looking forward to exploring Andrew’s journey and his perspective on the relationship between learning and communication and authority. Andrew, welcome to the Training Impact Podcast.
Andrew Chesnutt (00:52)
Awesome. Jeff, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity.
Jeff Walter (00:56)
And as my listeners know, I’m always interested in the journey, the the the by you know, you know, everyone always thinks, you know, you look at somebody like yourself successful and they always think you’re just born that way. But we all have these interesting we all have a journey, right? And we’re all on a journey.
Andrew Chesnutt (01:10)
We do.
Jeff Walter (01:11)
And so I so you know, tell us a little give me help us understand a little bit about your background and then what made you decide to start Authority Forge? And then we can get into author what it is and what what it’s
Mission is.
Andrew Chesnutt (01:26)
Absolutely. So my my story before I got into the learning industry, I had a ton of different jobs. I was actually sort of tracked to be in the IT industry. My first professional job was for a small med tech startup as a junior programmer. So I was going in that direction and I realized a few things weren’t going to work out for me. I hate math like a lot. This
Jeff Walter (01:46)
Ha ha.
Andrew Chesnutt (01:46)
was not gonna be ideal.
Jeff Walter (01:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Gotta back up. Because it well
Andrew Chesnutt (01:50)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (01:54)
it it it sounds to me, you said you’re a junior programmer, there there are so many people I’ve met over the years where they have an aptitude in something that’s marketable. And and and my my my late wife was like that. She was a she was she she was a math person, right? And she could do numbers and so she became an accountant. and then they get into it and they’re like, I don’t like this at all.
Because it I have the aptitude for it, but it doesn’t really give me joy. And it sounds like when you when you said that I l I I I laughed, but it’s it’s I think it’s an important thing. It’s special people early in their career, it’s it’s good to, you know, have an aptitude, but you you gotta find the thing that brings joy to your life. So mm hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (02:32)
Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, I was a very good programmer. I mean, that that was a thing,
but it just wasn’t what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. It was I there was something else out there that I kind of wanted to do and I had no idea what it was. I just knew that this wasn’t it. and you know, and which actually was an amazing w worked out really well for me because now, you know, a lot of the pro a lot of base level programming is taken over by AI at this point. And so, you know, it it wouldn’t have been the right career track. So I guess there’s also some provenance in there kind of saying go in this other direction.
But fast forward having tried tried a few different programming jobs and did well at them and just wasn’t what I was wanting to do. what I I ended up I moved to Cleveland for a number of years, moved back to Buffalo again,
Jeff Walter (03:12)
Uh-huh.
Andrew Chesnutt (03:13)
my hometown of Buffalo, New York. And once I got here, I wanted to find what I what I considered my f my future previous employer, like just a make job, something to at least make things work here that wasn’t programming.
Jeff Walter (03:23)
I’m sorry. I like that expression.
Andrew Chesnutt (03:28)
My future previous employer. Yeah, basically.
Jeff Walter (03:28)
I need I need to find my future previous employer. That is beautiful.
I l anyway, sorry. Just continue. Continue. It’s just it is funny. I like that.
Andrew Chesnutt (03:34)
It’s all good. It’s all good. It’s all good. Well, so
trying to find that that one job that was just going to sustain things until I got landed, until I got my feet back on the ground again. And so I tend to like to pick jobs that I haven’t done before that seemed interesting. Now, my version of interesting is often different than other people’s. So for me, it was call center work because I called call centers for most of my life and had no idea how these things worked. So I applied for a general job, just you know, kind of doing work for a major mortgage company at the time.
About three months in, I see a post on like a flyer on a wall going, Hey, we’re hiring for a training coordinator. I had no idea what it was. I was a TA in college, and so I had already done some training and said, Okay, let’s go try this. I was like four days late getting my application in, went through the process still, and got the job. So this happened. And I found my lane. I I found kind of the the connection between taking a technical background.
And taking the communication stuff that I like doing, plus a little bit of performance end of things and kind of mixing it all together. And that’s where the presentation started, is it was just with standard corporate training, having to stand in front of over the years literally thousands of people, taking these very high-level concepts and breaking them down so that people would understand them. And I got really good at seeing if if anyone who has ever done facilitation understands what I’m talking about. When there’s some times that you’ll get there and everyone’s getting it and the vibe’s really great. And there’s other times it’s like you’re looking at
It’s just crickets. They have no idea what you’re talking about. And I started to notice trends. Like what happened when somebody got it and what happened when they didn’t, and what was the difference between the two? And this is where the engineering comes in, is I could kind of unpack that. Fast forward to a number of years later, I got into presentations, and this is where the authority forge came in. I had always knew I was gonna start a company. I tried to start one at 16. I mean, this was going to be an inevitable part of my life. And so after a big layoff,
I decided this is the time I’m going to do it. Like this is the universe telling me now is your moment. So I started the Authority Forge. It actually started off as a learning company called Nickel City Learning Solutions. I was doing
Jeff Walter (05:36)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (05:37)
the standard kind of outsourced e-learning developer, and I still I’m one to this day. And what it did is it got me into the world of the world of instructional design and taking this presentation world to this, you know, the presentation skills and leveling them up.
So I hooked on with an entrepreneur. So I hooked on with an entrepreneur named Chris, and he was my very first client. And I actually was with him until middle of last year. So I still do work for him, but I’m
Jeff Walter (06:02)
wow.
Andrew Chesnutt (06:02)
working on another presentation for him. we’re reworking a presentation I’ve created for him. And we added another variable into the the equation. So we’ve got all the learning side of things, you know, as far as being able to take high-level concepts, break them down, being able to understand what an audience will and will not understand.
You know, being able to engineer it, but I also got to see what the entrepreneurial side was. That sort of ragtag group of people that won’t take no for an answer and just keep going no matter what’s happening. And that’s that’s where the authority for it ended up. Yeah, exactly. yep. And you would have started a business, understands what that’s like. And that’s really
Jeff Walter (06:30)
Sounds about right.
Andrew Chesnutt (06:36)
what started is it I found that niche. Like it took some iterations over the years. And that’s what I’m trying to show is there was a couple of different refinements on what happened.
But what it ultimately ended up to is being in one very specific lane. I do pre I do high stakes presentations for entrepreneurs and corporations. And I do
Jeff Walter (06:50)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Andrew Chesnutt (06:52)
them in a way your brain will absorb. And I found my niche. And I love doing it. I’m very good at it and I love doing it. So you find your own thing, right?
Jeff Walter (06:59)
Well and yeah,
so so okay, so that’s that’s starts Authority Forge and you know, that we’re really focused on high stakes presentations, which I would imagine from an entrepreneur’s standpoint, a lot of that would have to do with either big game changing clients and or finance, you know, whether you’re going for you know, venture money and all that kind of good stuff. So
Andrew Chesnutt (07:23)
Yeah. V V C pitch decks, you know, sales
sales presentations, just anything that really has a lot of stakes behind it. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (07:29)
Yeah. So
what so what what are the some of the lessons learned? What are some of the the the the things that make a
Like what is just yeah. How do how do you do that?
Andrew Chesnutt (07:41)
The number one thing is I I had somebody tell me this many years ago and I I had a really, you know, I was just in a really dark period, because we always have to go through this. This is part of building a company.
Jeff Walter (07:51)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (07:51)
It’s those periods we don’t talk about very often. And you always hear the good stuff, right? So I had a really dark moment and I sat down with a really close friend of mine who had been an entrepreneur for a very long time. And he said, the only way you can screw this up is to quit.
Jeff Walter (08:04)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (08:05)
And I needed to hear that.
Because at that point you’re doubting every single thing, you’re every life choice you’ve ever made. You’re doubting your entire existence, whether or not you’re good enough, whether or not it’s gonna work. There’s a huge amount of uncertainty around that moment. And realizing the only way I’m ever gonna mess this up is to quit. And what that did in my head is to give me permission to just go ahead and do the thing, even if it might not be a hundred percent successful or end up the way that I thought it did, I still did it and I still
Jeff Walter (08:31)
Uh-huh.
Andrew Chesnutt (08:32)
execute it.
And I think that was probably one of the biggest pieces of advice I have ever had in my life. and just changed the trajectory. the others, yeah, and just that tenacity that people have of hearing no over and over and over again and being able to still stand up and go, nope, I I I want this to happen and it’s going to happen through just sometimes sheer brute force. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (08:51)
Yeah. Well, you know,
as as an as a long time entrepreneur, I and you know, a big part of our audience where we f you know, our our customers, we focus on franchise oars and a lot of them are developing and they’re they’re you know, entrepreneurs. I to me, I always find it it very fascinating along that ’cause you’re you’re right. But there’s like this thin line b between tenacity and like bullheaded stubbornness, right? Like and I it’s I always
I I’m always trying to check myself that I’m not being blindly stubborn, you know, and and and humble enough to take new information. But it’s a it’s a tough balancing act because, you know, it’s hard. It’s hard. And yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (09:34)
Yeah. It is. Especially especially
when you first start out, one of the problems that we have when we first start out is we are we have this transition period that happens where we know we’re different, we know we’re gonna go out and do this entrepreneurial thing, but everyone in our world has no idea what the hell we’re doing. Like it’s so far outside of their experience, they will try with every good intention to help, but they just don’t even have anywhere near the life experience necessary to be able to give any sort of posit anything that’s gonna help us.
And so we always we have this kind of noise, but we don’t have this entrepreneur tribe around us who can help us to guide us in the right direction and say, nope, you’re not crazy. Here’s what’s actually going on. It has helps us with that experience. And I think that’s one of the first transitions that has to happen. Get around people who think like you do. I have really two very close friends of mine. and I’ll tell you right now, candor is our love language.
Jeff Walter (10:22)
Hm.
Andrew Chesnutt (10:23)
If they think something sucks, they will point blank tell me, bro, this absolutely sucks, and here’s why.
You know, no feeling spared. Just tell me. And that’s a sign of respect for us. And
Jeff Walter (10:33)
Yes.
Andrew Chesnutt (10:34)
it’s one of those things where you have that person that steps outside and says, Here’s what, here’s my well thought through idea. Here’s why I think it sucks. And here’s, you know, here’s, you know, just gives me evidence on it, not just says it sucks, but here’s my experience and here’s what I’ve done before and here’s how this works. And having people out there to reflect that back on you.
Even if it I had this even if it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re gonna take action on it, it still causes you to have to step back and question what you’re doing and kind of give give you know check yourself. Really good example that we spoke about briefly when we first started. I’m in Reading presentations and I have this very close friend of mine. And when I when I first like totally re-went into this direction, he was telling me, bro, you’re gonna be out of business in a year because AI is gonna take all this over.
Jeff Walter (11:18)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (11:19)
He caught now.
I don’t think he was right, but he caught a blind spot. He caught something that, you know, this is this is something my audience is going to say that I need to be able to work around. And or how do I differentiate myself in it? But, you know, and so even necessarily it doesn’t mean that it’s going to be, I know what this is all the time, and this is, you know, it’s not always going to be evidence-based, but sometimes it’s just making you rethink what you what your assumption is. And I think it helps with that.
not going in because I see what you’re saying, not going in the wrong direction just out of stubbornness, following data and actually looking at it. I think having those people to challenge you like that is really
Jeff Walter (11:55)
Yeah, I I I well and it’s interesting because I think I I view it as like Uber learning is like you if you’re the entrepreneur, you’re creating something in the world that didn’t exist. Even if you’re just throwing a popsicle stand on a corner. There was no popsicle stand on the corner. Like you’re you know, like even if you’re doing doing a Me Too business, it didn’t exist there.
wherever there is, right? And so but and then the more you’re differentiating from a Me Too, you know, and and actually and doing something innovative, you know, it it it’s it’s it’s new and and it’s I I equate it to learning in that it all learning is uncomfortable because it changes your map of the world. Right?
Andrew Chesnutt (12:40)
Exactly.
Jeff Walter (12:41)
Like otherwise you don’t learn.
‘Cause you’re like, hey, my map is fine. I know the world and you know, this new piece of information is, you know, I I don’t need to change my map. But when you actually learn something, you you change your map of how you view the world. or you know, your skills, your capabilities and all that kind of stuff. And entrepreneurs very similar is you’re trying to change the literally in some cases, the map of the world. And
Andrew Chesnutt (13:03)
Yep.
Jeff Walter (13:05)
and it it’s it’s it’s it’s uncomfortable.
It’s it’s it’s i you know, especially for other folks and and and I I I think you need some y the you t and I what I love about your group that’s really interesting. I I love that I have I have a a couple of other friends that are similar, is you have to you have to face it with humility and then your your peers need to be honest. Right? Like right, like yeah, yeah, like well because
Andrew Chesnutt (13:31)
Brutally honest. Brutally honest.
Jeff Walter (13:35)
Better to just, you know, insult your feelings for a moment than, you know, to have you spend a a year and a hundred grand pursuing something that they saw was stupid a year ago. Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (13:45)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (13:46)
Or it or and I’ve had this happen to me. People said, I don’t think that’s a good idea. I wouldn’t invest time and energy in it. And I ask for their reasoning. And if they’re you know, and if they and and they’ll have some good reasoning, but I’ll sit there and go, Okay, I understand that.
I’m gonna proceed anyway, but I put to you what you said about the blind spot, right? But yes, there’s this thing they brought up, and I respect them that I gotta make sure that we address this, whatever this is, so I don’t get clobbered five steps down the road. So it’s that’s very cool.
Andrew Chesnutt (14:17)
I think it’s something people
people outside entrepreneurship don’t understand this. They just think you’re being jerks and that’s not what it is. It is it is respect and it is a love language. It’s like I care enough about you to tell you something you don’t want to hear right now.
Jeff Walter (14:29)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (14:29)
But I think it’s gonna I think is gonna help you and here’s why. And it’s a really different style of communication. And I think as you know, when when you’re in the the entrepreneur world, you have to be like that because you said we’re learning, we are constantly learning something, we’re constantly changing, we’re constantly evolving, we are constantly in discomfort.
Which is part of the game that we have. But, you know, that having having those people around who are who are willing to kind of step up and say, No, this is different. We have to communicate differently is yeah.
Jeff Walter (14:53)
Yeah, you
know, and and it’s interesting. I was just down at the World Franchise Expo, which I I I forget that they had like a couple hundred franchise awares there and it’s it’s it’s an expo for people that want to get into the franchise industry or or want to buy a franchise. And you know, it it I I find this industry very fascinating ’cause it’s so entrepreneurial. There’s always new brands coming. That like it’s such a cool industry.
And but and and and the attendees are all people that are interested in getting into you know into business, becoming entrepreneurs themselves. And it’s interesting because what you just said it you I can’t tell you how many people, you know, because all the all the presentations and all the the the s sessions are like, hey, help, you know, how this is what you should look for. This is a become you this is a you know, evaluate a brand, this is what you do. And one of the themes over and over again was exactly what you just said, which is
You’re not buying a business in a box. You’re buying an operating system. Right? So don’t expect that you’re just gonna, you know, open up the lock and poof, a successful business with positive cash flow is just gonna start coming. You’re buying in a franchise a proven operating system. Now you have to operate the system. And and there’s plenty of room for you know.
your own management, your own creativity, and and and plenty of opportunity to fail. Right? You know, and plenty
Andrew Chesnutt (16:22)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Walter (16:24)
of opportunity to succeed. But it you know, it’s very it’s very interesting. I
Andrew Chesnutt (16:28)
I I love
the franchise mo like I love the franchise, I love the franchise model because it allows you to have all of those systems that we usually have to build. They’re all built for you. You have the brand, you have the the systems, you have the support behind you, and you’re right, you still have to go through it. There’s still a lot of c things that you have to do to make it happen, but it’s nice to have that structure behind it. And I think it’s a good kind of entry into things. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (16:49)
Yeah, well yeah, well
I I think it helps solve one of those problems of is this concept viable in the marketplace? Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (16:56)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (16:57)
Like, do people want, you know, anchovies with peanut butter or whatever the, you know, or whatever the whatever the thing is. And it’s like, yeah, look, we’ve got six hundred units over here where they sell anchovies with peanut butter. and but you know, but it does leave lots of room for for yeah, depending on this brand, especially with the emerging brands.
Which are, you know, but even some of the older brands, you know. I I don’t know if I I mentioned this. My my listeners are probably sick of this, but I I was interviewing this one gentleman and which turns out he lived like in the same city as my sister. And her his daughter was dance with my niece. But
Andrew Chesnutt (17:32)
Wow.
Jeff Walter (17:33)
anyway, he was a former Disney World
Andrew Chesnutt (17:35)
World.
Jeff Walter (17:36)
manager, executive and
And anyway, he he left that and one of the things he did he’s kinda kinda like you. I like yeah, it’s so the other funny thing about entrepreneurs is they’re always like got a bunch of things going on. But he had a one of the
Andrew Chesnutt (17:48)
yeah.
Jeff Walter (17:49)
things he did is is he bought a a carpet cleaning franchise. Right? Like you so you sit in there going like and and the interesting is that particular brand, they had their operating system down. It’s very successful. it’s a very you know, it’s one of the bigger known brand brands out there in the business.
And what they really cared about as a brand and and as an operating system was that you clean the carpets properly. You know, this is the way you do it. You do what you do B E D C. But being a Disney guy, he was all about the customer experience. So he engineered everything or else. And from I I’ve I told the story before, like
The vans, you have a uniform, you always have a spare uniform. You park in the streets so you don’t drip oil in their driveway. You go up, you put a mat down, you wipe your feet, you like this whole way of just knocking on the door to for a customer that’s already signed up to have their rugs clean. Right? Like and and and tremendously successful, tremendously successful. So it it I always bring that I I I use that down every time I go to one of those shows. I’m like, you’re buying an operating system, not a business in a box.
And and you need to remember that. But we’re we got off topic there, although it’s
Andrew Chesnutt (19:03)
It’s one the things I love about talking to entrepreneurs is you can talk about seven different things in a conversation and we’re all g it’s great. I love it.
Jeff Walter (19:10)
I know. So so
let’s get back to authority for so you know one of the things is hi is is helping folks with high pr high stakes pre presentations,
Andrew Chesnutt (19:21)
That’s our main bread and butter.
Jeff Walter (19:23)
which you know is usually a learn like it you’re usually presenting to somebody and you’re trying to convince them or something or educate them on something. You know, and actually not and convincing is not even the right the right word. It’s you’re try trying to get them to agree to
view the world through the lens that you’re viewing the world through, whatever that presentation is, right?
Andrew Chesnutt (19:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (19:43)
And what what do you find is the you know, which translates a lot into you know, and and as you said, you you you’re, you know, you know, you’ve d built many, many, many courses for many, many, many organizations. And there’s a lot of that same type of technique as you’re trying to can you’re trying to expand or change somebody’s understanding of the world in some shape or form.
Whether it’s a knowledge or a skill or whatever. What what would what what would you say are some of the things that really make that effective? Or conversely, what are some of the, you know, traps that you want to avoid while you’re doing that?
Andrew Chesnutt (20:22)
Very whenever I approach a new client for the presentations, the very first question I ask them is why? Why are we creating this? And this was out of a lot of frustration when I first started trying to create presentations that were supposed to sell something that didn’t sell anything because we didn’t think about why why were we doing this thing? Like what is the outcome that I want? It works out like with instructional system designers do this really well. What is the end goal I want? Like what problem am I trying to fix? And we can do that inside of presentations as well.
Working on the starting with why, and then what is one thing I want them to walk away with at the end of this presentation? It comes from writing a TED talk where you have one big idea and you take it through the entire TED talk. that’s the kind of concept that we start with as well. So what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Like what is the purpose of this? And what is one idea I want to carry through and I want them to walk away with at the end? And if you start with that as a base, then the entire presentation will get substantially better.
Because now you have a reason.
Jeff Walter (21:22)
Well, let’s take the why. W why from whom’s whose perspective? Because my why as the presenter might be different than your why as the listener. You know, wh my why as the instructor might be different than your why as the student. So who from what perspective is the why?
Andrew Chesnutt (21:41)
Both. What we want to see is as a presenter, why are you standing in front of these people? Like what what outcome do you want? Do you want them to buy something? Do you want to book a call? Do you want to just is it just educational? Do I want to move them towards something? Is this motivational? you know, what sort of motivation do we want? So that’s part of it. From the audience standpoint, the why too is is it it kind of ties into the both it ties into both sides. So the audience is going to when they when you say I want to, I am creating this because I want to sell you this.
the audience perspective it’s going to be if they follow through on that then now that’s the why they’re there is what you know they’re sorry let me try that again i’m not explaining this well so the why from the presenter standpoint is why am i doing this what what is the outcome that i want from the audience standpoint it’s why would i wanna why would i want to listen to you why why am i going to buy this why am i why do i want to be inspired by it and there are two different parts of the process so the first one is
Why are you actually creating this? Then now let’s name your audience and what their pain points are. I think that’s what’s tripping me up a little bit, is the next step that we usually do inside
Jeff Walter (22:45)
Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (22:45)
the process is who are you speaking to? Because I’ve if I’m talking to a corporate crowd, it is very different than if I’m talking to a group of franchisees. They have a very different tone, very different outcomes, very different pain points. and then we start into kind of what are the things that people don’t move unless you give them a reason to. What are the reasons the pain points that we need to hit in order to in order to make them move?
So those are kind of the three. So the why is the why for the audience is in the other two. Who in the audience you’re talking to and what are their pain points that are gonna make them move from their current state? And then we go from there. So they’re a little bit kind of separate but equal, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:19)
So
so the i i i it would a b good way of thinking about that be from the from the learner perspective, i it i if if you’re the presenter or the the why from the audience perspective i that’s most motivating is how do I stop this pain? Pain prevention, pain relief? Is that
Andrew Chesnutt (23:41)
Yes. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:42)
a is that a like
You know, like and therefore you gotta kinda build Clinton it and you know, I feel your pain. Like it like no, no, you
Andrew Chesnutt (23:49)
I hear you right. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:51)
like but you know, like like is it it because then because that creates the because if they could see that it it it creates the opportunity to learn and it creates the opportunity to to engage. Is that is that kind of what you’re saying? Is that am I getting that right?
Andrew Chesnutt (24:03)
Yeah. We that is.
And it’s a little bit different depending on the type that I’m doing. A sales presentation is going to be a little bit better, a little bit different than motivation, but it’s all going to have the underlying thing of there is a pain point somewhere. They wouldn’t have come to see you unless there is something that you’re trying to solve. Like that’s their
Jeff Walter (24:19)
Right, right, okay.
Andrew Chesnutt (24:20)
why. So let’s talk about a sales sales presentation. It’s really easy to understand. If I have this widget that’s not working, I want a new widget that now works. So so as the presenter, I need to come in and say,
This is why your widget isn’t working, and here’s why ours is better. So you need to hit that pain point and go, wouldn’t it be nice if this actually did this? You’ve hit a pain point now. For a motivational, it’s a little bit different. That pain point is there’s something missing in my life, or there is something I don’t feel like I have, or there is something I feel like I can’t overcome. And at the end of it is now I feel like I can overcome it. So it’s a a different pain
Jeff Walter (24:53)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (24:53)
point, but it’s still a pain point. I have a
Client of mine, I helped her write her TED Talk, and she is she has a Guinness World Record for being the first woman to climb the seven second summits. So the second second tallest mountain on every continent. And for her, it’s like she has this huge backstory. Single mom, seven kids. I mean, this huge backstory.
Jeff Walter (25:12)
Holy cow.
Andrew Chesnutt (25:12)
Yeah. Was an entrepreneur like Yep. Climbing mountains. Exactly. In every continent. Yes. And and and did it in a year, I think it took her 18 months. It’s a huge backstory.
Jeff Walter (25:14)
Sing single mom, seven kids, entrepreneur climbing mountains in every continent. Okay. There there’s a story. There’s a story there.
Andrew Chesnutt (25:26)
You can go take a look at it, but yeah, huge backstory to it. But very much. And she’s an awesome woman too. I love her. She’s
Jeff Walter (25:26)
Holy holy talk about tenacity and and just grit. Holy cow.
Andrew Chesnutt (25:33)
awesome. But it was great. This is part of what I love to do about my especially working on that side of things, is I’d love to be able to tell these amazing stories of just adversity and how people overcame them. I think there’s gonna be for me, that’s how I give back to a community, is because I am the one who helps facilitate these. And so now think about how many people she’s gonna go out and speak to, which is gonna be
Thousands, maybe tens of thousands, I have now impacted all of their lives. And that’s one of the things I love to do the most about my my job is I can now impact people’s lives. But with her, if you think about it, her pain point where people come in is they say a strong, accomplished woman, they may not be. They may need that. That’s the pain point. I am not this strong, accomplished person who has done all these things. I feel less then because of that. And now I hearing her story and how she overcame it gives me the ability.
Or gives me the mindset that I need to be able to say, Whoa, no, I can do this. I can make this happen. So it’s a different pain point. But yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (26:26)
Yeah, well well,
and you know, it’s funny you say that because that’s one of the reasons and w when we started the pres the the show, I I just find the biography very interesting because most of us see the end result. You know, you meet somebody and they’re already up on stage and they’re already a keynote speaker or they’ve already got the billion dollar business or you know, whatever whatever it is, they’ve already done that thing. And and you just kind of go, well, they were just born to do that thing.
And then like your your your like your story, perfect example. It’s like you started one way, you had an aptitude, it wasn’t really doing it for you, you tried something else, which you know, led which which I love that story about about the call center, because it it led to something else that un then uncovered your your passion or or the and I don’t like the word I don’t like using passion. I use I like joy. It brings you joy, right? It’s the thing that brings you joy.
And and and it was this, you know, kind of, you know, bob and weave and and and try different things and and and you know and and so listening to her, like that and that person in the audience goes, you see this accomplished woman who’s you know, got it all together and it’s done this and it’s like I’m less than. There’s no way I could do that, right? And then you go and then you hear the journey and you’re like, you know.
this happened and this happened. And I I f I that’s that’s my favorite thing when I when I talk to folks that have been accomplished that have had accomplishments. It’s like it’s amazing the yeah, everyone thinks it’s always a straight line. You know, it’s it’s the it’s the old Hollywood actress that’s an overnight sensation, spent ten years doing, you know, community theater, right? Like it’s yeah, you
Andrew Chesnutt (28:09)
Yep, basically. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (28:11)
know, just yeah, yeah, eating tuna. Like, you know, it’s just
Andrew Chesnutt (28:13)
Yep. Two two and ramen
noodles, the you know the breakfast champions. Yep. And I think it’s
Jeff Walter (28:16)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for but they’re an overnight success, right? Yeah, and then but then you
learn about it, you’re like, well but and that’s where the tenacity comes in and the the o you know, it the only way you fail is if you stop trying. You know.
Andrew Chesnutt (28:29)
Yeah, and a book that
changed my life years ago is Can’t Hurt Me by David Goggins. And now I I have a personal relationship to this because like he talks about Paradise Road and kind of where he grew up. He grew up literally down the street from me until he was six. And I live in the
Jeff Walter (28:42)
very cool.
Andrew Chesnutt (28:42)
same area. And so there was kind of a personal connection to it. But also hearing somebody who came from very humble backgrounds and didn’t really have a whole lot and and you know, without giving away too much of the book, kind of what he overcame, I agree. I think it’s through the stories that we tell each other.
is a really powerful tool to be able to teach what happens. And it’s something that I use inside of presentations as well a lot because it’s from an emotional standpoint, it’s if you’re learning and there’s some emotion at a positive emotion attached to it, you will learn it faster. It’s easier to understand a story than it is to understand bullet points. And so a lot of what I’ll do in in stuff, especially when I’m doing things like TED Talks and that it just kind of comes part and parcel is we’re going tell you a bunch of stories that all are around this one story arc and make that all
And it’s yeah, it’s a really cool thing. it’s what happens when your moms are shrink is you know stuff like this. My mom’s a neuropsychologist, so yeah.
Jeff Walter (29:32)
I that’s
now now I know why we vibe so well. My my lay wife was a psychologist, so yeah, hey mar they married to one for thirty years, yeah. Yeah, you you you you pick up a thing or two. Well, but no,
Andrew Chesnutt (29:37)
you know what it is. There you go.
Jeff Walter (29:42)
but you you you know, from a learning perspective, and we talk about impactful training, you you hit the nail right on the head, which is humans are narrative machines. We we everything is a narrative, everything is a story. We’re a store we’re we process everything in stories and we’re we’re not
Computers, we’re not bits and bytes, we’re not bullet points. It’s it’s tell me a story and I’ll remember it forever. Give me a list of bullet points and I’ll forget it tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Which it which
Andrew Chesnutt (30:12)
Yep. Yep. We’re wired this way too. And I about fifteen
years ago we found this. There’s actually brain cells in our brain that light up with emotional activity. If
Jeff Walter (30:20)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (30:20)
I’m telling a story, I want you to think back to hearing a really good speaker tell a story on stage and you’re part of
Jeff Walter (30:25)
yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (30:26)
the audience and you have that moment where you step back for a second and it’s almost like the world has stopped and you are just very engaged in this story. What’s actually physiologically happening to you is your brainwaves have synced with theirs. You literally create a mastermind.
And it completely just turns
Jeff Walter (30:39)
very cool.
Andrew Chesnutt (30:40)
up our ability to be able to in to intake information, these these cells in our brain absolutely light up and allow us to intake more than we normally could. It’s really interesting.
Jeff Walter (30:48)
When when you say in sync
with their brain, what like what does that mean?
Andrew Chesnutt (30:52)
If you hooked everyone up to meters, you would see all of their brainwaves have synchronized.
It’s a physiological response. And it’s really cool. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (30:58)
And then and then that allow and so
so it’s it’s it’s it’s almost it it’s kinda like the human the the the human propensity to mimic, like mimicry. Like you and I talk, we’ll end up subtly mimicking each other to connect better. So it’s it’s like that, but but at a much higher level in the brain with brain waves and brain activity. Is that what you’re like? That’s wild. That is
Andrew Chesnutt (31:22)
It is. Yep. And I know everyone’s experienced
Jeff Walter (31:32)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (31:32)
behind it. Like take them on a journey. You know, even
Jeff Walter (31:35)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (31:35)
if it’s a even if it’s a it was funny. I was read this study a while ago that was had a large number of venture capital companies and what they did is they looked at about 300 pitches to these VC companies.
And they wanted to see what the common denominator that made all of these pitches popular, that made them get funded.
Jeff Walter (31:53)
Right. Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (31:56)
And the one criteria, kind of the common denominator amongst all of them is the CEO, their backstory, and their passion for what they’re doing. Because these folks had already seen the numbers. Like they get a pa you know a page of numbers first that says this and this. And you know, we we do add them into pitch decks just because it’s relevant information. I want to hear why you’re doing it.
Yeah, I wanna hear that story a little bit about why you’re doing what you’re doing, because your the passion that you have behind it, or as you say, the joy that you have behind it, is dri directly relational to how much you’re gonna stick through the hard times. And I wanna make sure that you’re gonna be able to weather that. Yeah. But I think it was interesting that that was the number one thing. It wasn’t, you know, they had the sort of ROI or their, you know, ten-year EBITDA is per front is you know pr predicted to be this. Nope. It is.
I wanna hear from the CEO and I wanna see if they’re gonna be able to make this work. And I wanna hear the back.
Jeff Walter (32:42)
Yeah. Well
well and it y the the yeah, and I the you words coming to my mouth slowly. but
Andrew Chesnutt (32:50)
good. We’ve all been there.
Jeff Walter (32:52)
no, well just jumping back, the other thing you said about the brains lighting up that I thought was fascinating was when you are in sync, you’re also able to absorb a lot more information. So
Andrew Chesnutt (33:05)
Yes. Yep.
Jeff Walter (33:06)
that like so it’s not just that you get into this kind of
you know synchronous, you know, kind of thing with the the s the speaker, but it also allows the transmission of, you know, multiples times the information. And and that and and then it’s thick. That that’s fascinating. Cause I I forget the actual numbers, but I remember listening to somebody on a on a on a pod podcast about you know the difference between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind and and emotions. And it’s like, you know, we
Like our conscious mind can process something like a couple of kilobits a second or something like that. Very little. But like your body absorbs like gigabits of information a second. And your unconscious and you you know processes all that and that’s and it and you get this very low resolution response called emotion. Right. Right. And and I was and so when you said that I was like, huh.
It kinda gets you in this like br brain trance and you can just transmit a lot more information. That’s fascinating.
Andrew Chesnutt (34:05)
And and to to build on that a little bit more, whenever we’re building presentations, especially if there’s something like, you know, we have to we have to give, we have to train you on something and it’s very information dense, and we’re using a lot of that consciousness. we use something called cognitive load. There’s only so much information I can take at once. And the thing about that’s weird about cognitive load is is it shows up in this weird way. People don’t tell you I’m cognitively overloaded and I have no idea what you just said. They just don’t say anything.
Jeff Walter (34:30)
Right. Zone
out. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (34:34)
You get that leaf overlook and it’s like, that’s nice. And they don’t
take any action on it. so you
Jeff Walter (34:38)
Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (34:38)
know, part of so when I’m working in kind of that side of things, I always try to make sure cognitive load, but you’re right, as far as cognitive load, if I’m telling a story or if I’m doing mindset or motivational, I can there’s a hell of a lot more cognitive load
Jeff Walter (34:50)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (34:51)
bandwidth, if you will, that I can put onto people and be able to that’s why, you know, they can learn so much more because there’s less resistance. I’m not trying to store as much information. So there’s a bit of a difference. Every every presentation’s a little bit different.
Like as far
Jeff Walter (35:01)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (35:02)
as what the meet men’s goals are and we just have to kind of design for what that end goal is, which is why I start with why. You know, if if it’s gonna be if you’re starting off with a sales pitch and I think it needs to be more motivational, that’s gonna change the significantly the the direction that we take with it. So yeah.
Jeff Walter (35:17)
Yeah, very, very interesting. Very interesting. Hey, shi shifting yours a little, before we got on, we’re talking about AI, and we
Andrew Chesnutt (35:24)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (35:24)
have a few we have a few minutes left, so I want to make sure we covered this topic. And you know, in in light of what we just said, then along comes this thing called AI, which is getting more sophisticated all the time. And you know, how do you see that impacting all of this and
you know, is it yo, a net positive, net negative? What what are you where where how are you bring how are you using it? How can it be effective how can you use it effectively? How can you use it ineffectively?
Andrew Chesnutt (35:54)
No. I don’t want to put a judgment call on it and say it’s good or bad simply because we’re not a hundred percent sure what it is right now. It’s still pretty new. It’s only been out for maybe four years and we’re still trying to figure it out. and also it’s an incredibly powerful tool. And I think it
Jeff Walter (36:07)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (36:07)
is going to it has completely changed the way we do things, and I think it’s going to continue completely changing the way we do things. You know, I started off in the tech industry, and one of the things I’ve noticed if you’re a junior programmer, you’re going to have a lot of difficulty getting a job because AI has now taken that.
But one thing AI is not
Jeff Walter (36:22)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (36:22)
good at is strategy. It’s not good at being able to say, here’s the best idea. Think about it. We were we were joking earlier that it’s sort of like the intern. It just sort of kind of puts information out there, but it doesn’t really take into consideration why I should do it.
Jeff Walter (36:36)
Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (36:37)
Yeah. so that’s part of it is is it’s it’s not it’s good at taking large volumes of information and boiling them down into a point. there’s some days when I’m writing an email and it
You know, I just I send it off to Chat GPT going, Can you make this sound like I have an IQ over 20, please? I just it’s just
Jeff Walter (36:53)
Ha ha ha.
Andrew Chesnutt (36:54)
not I need a hand with this. I’m cognitively overloaded and I need a hand. You know, it’s good with with that sort of a data, but it’s not good at maintaining story arcs. It’s not good at the higher level. one thing to remember about it, there’s a lot of shock and awe value because it can give us a huge it can do do what is perceived as a huge amount of work with very little input from us. And
Jeff Walter (37:14)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (37:15)
so that’s why it looks so good is is wow, this thing’s great.
But put it under some scrutiny and you’ll find huge issues with it, like way too many M-dashes and it telling you no fluff. You know, the very stuff we hear when we’re when something is AI generated. When it comes to the end, it’s a very powerful tool. I use it extensively, honestly. It’s it’s
Jeff Walter (37:31)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Chesnutt (37:32)
made my job a hell of a lot easier, but it allows me to do what I’m really good at. Instead of having to go back through a whole bunch of notes and try to pull out little bits and pieces, I can let AI take some of that over, give me, you know, bullet points.
checked against, you know, what I actually said, just to make sure that it was correct. Now I can do what I’m really good at, and that’s making sure that the audience is going to understand it. The story arc is there, make sure that it’s clear, make sure, you know, the the higher level stuff, it allows me to do that and spend more of my brain power on the things that I’m really good at versus kind of the ad administrative stuff that can make it difficult. So yeah. At the end of the day, it is a very powerful statistical s
I’m losing words again. So it’s a very powerful statistical model. That is all that it is. It has a massive database of information. And what it does is it it looks at that next token and what tell what that next token’s gonna be. And the token’s about a syllable. So you know that’s what it that’s what it does very, very well. So and yeah, so it can be very helpful for some things. It is going, it’s it has changed the world. It’s going to continue to change the world. It’s gonna really help us a lot. But I think a lot of people are super bullish on what it actually is.
you know, it it’s not I’m not super concerned about my job. I’m really not.
Jeff Walter (38:44)
Yeah. Well,
you know, it it it it’s interesting. The the the more I use it, it’s like it’s like what you just said, it kind of takes out a lot of that lower value added effort. Right.
Andrew Chesnutt (38:54)
Yeah. Yep.
Jeff Walter (38:55)
and when I get deep into it, I find myself going I’m doing such the higher value added stuff that like I can only really do it for like half a day. And then I’m I’m then just
Andrew Chesnutt (39:04)
A little bit.
Jeff Walter (39:06)
like I’m then I’m shot like I’m just like I’m I’m tired.
Right? Because they didn’t
Andrew Chesnutt (39:09)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (39:10)
have all these breaks of doing all this low value added brainless stuff because it does I anyway, it’s I find I use it pretty extensively. I find it an amazing tool, but it’s a tool, you know, and
Andrew Chesnutt (39:22)
Yes, yeah.
Jeff Walter (39:23)
so it’s just it’s just interesting. It’ll be very interesting to see how it goes how it helps and hinders on the the learning and whether we actually become more of a higher thinking.
society or you know, or do we end up with what was that movie, Idiocracy? You know.
Andrew Chesnutt (39:43)
Idiocracy. Yep. Yep.
Jeff Walter (39:46)
And I and I think it’ll probably be a little bit of both. I think it’ll probably be a little bit of both, you know, but so you know.
Andrew Chesnutt (39:49)
I think well, we’re we’re starting to see some of that. You know, we’re st
and it we’re starting to get the evidence now to back it up, where companies were super bullish on it, said we’re, you know, I think it was, correct me if I’m wrong, I think it was Uber, that actually had a scorecard for who could use the most amount of AI to write new software. They blew their entire yearly budget in April, a half a billion dollar budget in April.
Jeff Walter (40:12)
Ha ha ha ha.
Andrew Chesnutt (40:14)
And it did not produce
Jeff Walter (40:14)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (40:15)
the quality results they wanted.
Jeff Walter (40:16)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s
Andrew Chesnutt (40:17)
I think it was a
really interesting experiment. I don’t want to I don’t want to tell companies don’t do this, but I think it was also a very powerful and very expensive learning
Jeff Walter (40:24)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (40:25)
experience about what this thing can and cannot do. Duolingo did the same thing too, where they said we’re going to outsource all of our translations to AI and that flopped miserably. And I think we’re going to see a lot more of this. I also think we’re going to see a lot more of absolutely terrible software. because I I’m I’m one of my side hustles, I do a fractional CTO and I I’ve done this for years. It’s I only take on a couple of clients at a time.
And I’m working with one right now where it it’s this huge piece of software, but I think the developer basically vibe coded this thing in his basement. He’s not a trained developer. He doesn’t have the the discipline that we have as we’re trained in as old school developers, where you do a specification doc, you do mock-ups of what the UI looks like, then you start writing code, then you s now we just kind of you know blaze into it going, I’m just gonna write this stuff and hope that Claude Code figures it out, without that discipline.
And it makes us dumber. It really does. So that is not a good use. you know, yeah. I I you know, I I come from the mindset this is kind of that learning aspect of a user interface is like a joke. If I have to explain it, it’s not that good. Whereas now we’re just kind of creating whatever it is and just letting Cloud Code take over and that’s not something it’s good at. It doesn’t think about
Jeff Walter (41:31)
Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (41:31)
it doesn’t think how whipp humans think at all. It’s not good at it. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (41:35)
Yeah,
well well it it gets back to that the human i the human insight. It’s it’s a great tool.
Andrew Chesnutt (41:40)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (41:42)
but there is that those high value added human insight things. And you know, it it it’s g it’s gonna be fascinating. It’s gonna be I’m I’m glad I’m living through it. It’s really it’s very cool. Well, you know
Andrew Chesnutt (41:53)
Yeah. It’s fun to watch it now.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (41:56)
Yeah, we so we’re we’re we’re almost out time here. before we go, just i if somebody wanted to get a hold of you or or Authority Forge, what’s the best way to get a hold of you or and and contact Authority Forge?
Andrew Chesnutt (42:08)
Easiest way to do it is go to the theauthorityforge dot com. it’s our website, it’s got everything that we do and can give you a better idea for for what I do. Yeah, it’s the best place to get more information about.
Jeff Walter (42:17)
All right.
The Authorityforged.com.
Andrew Chesnutt (42:20)
Correct. Yep.
Jeff Walter (42:21)
Right. Did you spend time in Ohio at the Ohio State University? Yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (42:27)
Actually spent seven years in it.
Jeff Walter (42:31)
no, so the Authorityforged.com. See, yeah. We just told a little story and people remember it. Yeah. The yeah.
Andrew Chesnutt (42:37)
To be honest, just because I couldn’t get authorityforge.com so I had to put the the in front of it, that’s how become a marketing thing sometimes.
Jeff Walter (42:43)
yeah.
Well, well Andrew, just th thank you for taking the time out of your day to to come chat with us. always a pleasure. it’s really interesting because you’re doing things at a very you know, high stakes scale. And I think you could take a we could take a lot of those lessons learned and bring them down into more everyday things that we’re doing. which, you know, in the everyday thing is is actually much more higher stakes than people think.
You know, that is your that is most of our lives is just the everyday stuff. And that’s as high stakes as you can get in my mind. So thank you for sharing all those great insights. I really appreciate it.
Andrew Chesnutt (43:19)
My pleasure, Jeff. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate you.
Jeff Walter (43:22)
All right. And for everybody out there, thanks for listening. We’ll see you around. Have a good day.