Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
When organizations discuss workforce shortages, the conversation almost always begins at the same place. Employers talk about recruiting challenges, unfilled positions, rising labor costs, and the growing difficulty of finding qualified candidates. Industry associations publish reports showing workforce gaps. Economic development groups discuss labor participation rates. Business leaders debate retention strategies and hiring practices. The discussion is important, but it often starts far too late in the process.
By the time an employer posts a job opening, the factors that shaped the available talent pool have been developing for years.
That broader reality sits at the center of a compelling conversation between Jeff Walter and Corey Koopmans of InternCrew on the Training Impact Podcast. While the discussion touches on internships, work-based learning, skilled trades, entrepreneurship, artificial intelligence, and workforce development, a much larger theme runs throughout the episode. America’s workforce challenges may have less to do with recruiting and far more to do with how young people discover careers in the first place.
For decades, students have been expected to make increasingly important educational and career decisions at an age when they often have limited exposure to the professions they are considering. They are asked to choose majors, degree programs, certifications, or career pathways long before they have spent meaningful time inside many of the industries those choices may eventually lead them toward. The result is a system that frequently asks people to make life-changing decisions based on assumptions rather than experience.
The consequences extend far beyond individual career satisfaction. Those decisions ultimately shape the talent pipelines that employers depend on, the workforce capacity industries require, and the economic competitiveness of entire regions. Seen through that lens, workforce development begins to look less like a recruiting challenge and more like a career discovery challenge.
One of the more interesting observations that emerges from the conversation is how frequently careers evolve through unexpected experiences rather than carefully planned decisions. Most professionals can identify moments that altered the direction of their careers in ways they could not have predicted. A part-time job introduced them to an industry they had never considered. A mentor helped them see possibilities they had overlooked. An internship provided visibility into a profession that felt entirely different in practice than it did in theory.
Those moments often become turning points because experience has a way of revealing realities that no brochure, website, or academic program can fully communicate.
A profession may sound appealing on paper while feeling completely different when experienced firsthand. An individual may be drawn toward a field because of earning potential, prestige, or family expectations, only to discover that the day-to-day work does not align with their interests, strengths, or values. Conversely, careers that initially seem uninteresting can become deeply engaging once someone understands the people, culture, and opportunities that exist within them.
Koopmans shares a personal example through his wife’s career journey. Like many students, she selected a college major based on the information available to her at the time. She earned a marketing degree from the University of Michigan before eventually discovering that her talents and professional interests aligned much more naturally with accounting and financial analysis. She built a successful career, but her story reflects a challenge that countless professionals experience. Educational choices are often made long before individuals have enough practical exposure to determine whether a profession truly fits who they are and how they want to contribute.
That reality does not diminish the value of higher education. Instead, it highlights the importance of creating opportunities for exploration before major commitments are made. Students benefit when they can test assumptions, explore possibilities, and gain firsthand exposure to multiple career paths before investing years of time and significant financial resources into a single direction.
The discussion becomes particularly relevant when examining the growing demand for skilled labor across the United States. While conversations about workforce development often focus on college pathways and knowledge work, many industries are confronting shortages that have been building for years. Automotive service, construction, manufacturing, electrical work, HVAC, logistics, and other technical professions are all facing similar demographic pressures as experienced workers retire faster than new workers enter the field.
At the same time, the country is investing heavily in infrastructure, manufacturing capacity, data centers, energy systems, and technology projects that depend on a robust skilled workforce. The demand for talent is growing while the supply pipeline struggles to keep pace. Koopmans points to projections showing a significant gap between the number of skilled workers available and the number that may ultimately be required to support future growth. What begins as a workforce issue quickly becomes an economic issue, an infrastructure issue, and potentially even a national competitiveness issue.
What makes the situation particularly striking is that many of these careers already provide the characteristics that students and families consistently say they value. Strong earning potential, long-term career stability, opportunities for advancement, entrepreneurship, and meaningful work are all available across a wide range of technical professions. Many of these pathways also allow individuals to begin earning earlier and avoid some of the financial burdens associated with longer educational programs. Despite these advantages, countless students never seriously consider these professions because they rarely encounter them in a meaningful way during their formative years.
The issue is not a lack of opportunity. The issue is a lack of visibility.
A student who has never spent time inside a dealership, manufacturing facility, construction company, service organization, or technical operation is unlikely to understand what those careers truly offer. Perceptions are often shaped by outdated assumptions, incomplete information, or stereotypes that no longer reflect reality. Without direct exposure, many promising career paths remain invisible.
Throughout the conversation, it becomes increasingly clear that work-based learning is valuable because it creates something far more important than a résumé entry. It provides context.
Students who spend time inside real organizations gain a richer understanding of work itself. They begin to see how teams function, how problems are solved, how customers are served, and how individual contributions connect to larger organizational goals. They gain exposure not only to technical skills but also to professional expectations, workplace culture, communication styles, and career progression.
That perspective often influences career decisions in profound ways.
Sometimes exposure confirms an existing interest. A student who thought they might enjoy a particular field discovers they were right. Other times exposure redirects someone toward a completely different path. In either case, the experience produces clarity. The goal is not to push students toward a predetermined outcome. The goal is to help them make better-informed decisions about their future.
Jeff Walter shares his own experience of being exposed to computer programming during high school at a time when such opportunities were relatively rare. That early experience helped shape a career that eventually led to building software companies and serving customers across numerous industries. The significance of the story is not the specific career outcome. The significance lies in the fact that exposure created possibilities that otherwise may never have been considered.
Stories like that exist everywhere. The careers people ultimately pursue are often influenced by opportunities that seemed relatively small at the time but proved transformational in hindsight. Work-based learning creates more opportunities for those moments to occur.
If the benefits of work-based learning are so compelling, an obvious question follows. Why are more employers not participating?
The answer, as Koopmans explains, has surprisingly little to do with motivation. Many employers genuinely want to help students gain experience. Business owners understand the workforce challenges facing their industries and recognize the value of developing future talent. In many communities, employers would welcome opportunities to support young people and strengthen local workforce pipelines.
The obstacle often lies in the complexity surrounding participation.
Over the course of his entrepreneurial career, Koopmans has built companies focused on payroll, workforce management, workforce analytics, tax credits, and education technology. Those experiences provided visibility into the administrative realities that employers face every day. Even well-intentioned workforce initiatives can become difficult to implement when they introduce additional requirements related to insurance, workers’ compensation, onboarding, compliance, payroll administration, training documentation, and reporting obligations.
For large organizations with dedicated human resources teams, these challenges may be manageable. For smaller employers, particularly those already operating with limited administrative capacity, the burden can become significant. The irony is that many of the organizations most capable of providing valuable learning experiences are precisely the organizations most likely to be discouraged by the operational complexity involved.
InternCrew was created to address that disconnect. Rather than requiring employers to manage every aspect of the employment relationship, the organization serves as an intermediary that simplifies participation for all parties involved. By acting as the employer of record, InternCrew assumes responsibility for many of the administrative functions that traditionally create barriers, allowing employers to focus on providing meaningful experiences while students gain access to opportunities that may not have existed otherwise.
The model reflects a broader lesson about workforce development. Good intentions alone are rarely enough. Participation increases when systems are designed to reduce friction and make engagement easier for everyone involved.
One of the more meaningful parts of the discussion emerges when Walter reflects on his own experience hosting interns within his organization. While internships are often viewed through the lens of recruiting, he describes another benefit that receives far less attention. Employees frequently derive tremendous satisfaction from helping someone else navigate the same challenges they once faced themselves.
That observation speaks to something larger than workforce development.
Organizations often focus on what interns gain from the experience, but mentors frequently gain something equally valuable. Teaching reinforces expertise. Coaching develops leadership skills. Helping someone else grow creates a sense of purpose that extends beyond day-to-day responsibilities. The relationship becomes an opportunity for knowledge transfer, professional development, and cultural reinforcement.
The conversation touches repeatedly on the importance of culture, and for good reason. Organizations with strong cultures tend to create environments where people are willing to invest in one another. Employees become more engaged when they feel connected to a larger purpose, and mentorship provides a tangible way to strengthen those connections. The act of helping someone else discover a profession, develop a skill, or build confidence can become a meaningful experience for everyone involved.
Seen this way, work-based learning becomes more than a workforce strategy. It becomes a cultural investment.
Toward the end of the episode, the conversation shifts toward artificial intelligence and the role it may play in shaping the future workforce. Rather than focusing exclusively on current use cases, Koopmans frames AI as a transformative technology whose long-term impact is still difficult to fully comprehend. Just as previous generations could not have predicted the eventual influence of the internet, today’s professionals may struggle to envision the ways artificial intelligence will reshape education, work, and entrepreneurship over the coming decades.
What stands out most is his belief that younger generations may be uniquely positioned to unlock AI’s potential. Students who grow up using these tools will approach them differently than those who adopt them later in life. They will see possibilities that others miss and develop workflows that feel natural in ways that older generations may find difficult to replicate.
Koopmans describes AI as a potential superpower for future workers, not because it replaces human capability, but because it amplifies it. Individuals who learn to combine human judgment, creativity, communication, and expertise with AI-enabled tools may be able to accomplish far more than previous generations could imagine.
That observation connects directly back to the broader theme of the episode. The future workforce will require new skills, new experiences, and new ways of thinking about career preparation. Helping young people navigate that future requires exposure not only to careers, but also to the technologies that will shape those careers.
The conversation between Jeff Walter and Corey Koopmans ultimately challenges a common assumption about workforce development. Organizations often focus their attention on recruiting because recruiting is where workforce shortages become visible. By that point, however, many of the factors influencing talent availability have already been set in motion years earlier.
Students need opportunities to explore careers before committing to them. Employers need practical ways to participate in workforce development without introducing unnecessary administrative burdens. Schools need stronger connections to the industries their students may eventually enter. Communities benefit when those relationships work together to create clearer pathways between education and employment.
InternCrew operates at the intersection of those needs, but the larger lesson extends beyond any single organization. Stronger talent pipelines are built when young people gain meaningful exposure to work, discover where their interests and abilities align, and develop a clearer understanding of how they can contribute. Workforce development, in that sense, begins long before a résumé is submitted or a job offer is extended. It begins with creating opportunities for exploration, experience, mentorship, and discovery while career possibilities are still taking shape.
For more information on InternCrew, visit – https://interncrew.com/
For more from the Training Impact Podcast, follow us on Social Media – https://t-sml.mtrbio.com/public/smartlink/trainingimpactpodcast
Jeff Walter (00:00)
I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast, where we explore scaling performance through training infrastructure.
Today’s guest is Corey Koopmans. Corey is a prodigious entrepreneur. He’s started a number of companies, really fascinating, and an executive at EntryPoint SRM and Intern Crew, where he helps organizations build talent pipeline by supporting student internships. He’s also constantly looking at how to leverage AI to include and improve organizational performance. He’s got a really interesting background. I’m really looking forward to talking to him. So, Corey, welcome to the program.
Corey Koopmans (00:32)
Hi, Jeff. Thank you so much for inviting me on today. It’s a pleasure and I look forward to our discussion.
Jeff Walter (00:37)
And and and so one of the things that’s really interesting, we had a very interesting conversation about is is the the student pipeline or getting kids or or young adults and people starting out their career into the workforce through skilled labor. And ⁓ and and it’s something you’ve been in focused on for many, many years. So help us understand entry point, intern.
crew but also your background because you started another comp ⁓ a number of companies over the years and they all center around that how do we take you know this potential talent pool of people and help them be highly productive and and and gain skills and knowledge and and and and start their careers. So
Corey Koopmans (01:06)
Yeah.
Yeah,
that’s plenty to start off on. So, ⁓ let’s see here. I’ll go from, the future and kind of work or from current and work backwards. So, ⁓ today the mission for intern crew, ⁓ I’m based here in Indianapolis, Indiana, and there’s a lot of, high school diploma and graduation pathway changes that have occurred within the state. And there’s now a great emphasis on.
Jeff Walter (01:24)
Ha ha ha ha.
Corey Koopmans (01:46)
work-based learning as a part of a graduation curriculum. And that’s awesome. I mean, I myself had several different jobs throughout high school and many of them were formative because it helped me to determine what I liked and didn’t like. And I think that being able to create a mechanism that ⁓ encourages more employers to be able to participate in that is certainly the mission for.
for intern crew, in addition to the fact that I think that there’s a huge sea change coming as it pertains to artificial intelligence, what that’s doing with, I’d say, a cascade of changes to what’s traditionally known as a white-collar position. And this huge trillion-dollar investment that’s coming over the next 10 years for building out infrastructure and data centers and helping to prepare our infrastructure across the United States for
for the future, ⁓ many of those changes are really heavily predicated on availability of skilled trades labor. And today there’s something like 1.2 million people participating in the skilled trades. And there’s a need for something like 2.7 million in order to support scaling and growth. And that’s a giant Delta. In fact, it’s potentially a national security issue.
Jeff Walter (02:49)
Mm-hmm.
Corey Koopmans (03:08)
if we can’t welcome more young people into the skilled trades because it precludes us from being able to action and be successful in doing a lot of this infrastructure build out. And it goes all the way down to like in the HVAC or even the electric electricians context, you know, there’s five people that are retiring and there’s only two new people coming into that workforce. These are actually really high paying jobs. And I’d like to help put a spotlight on
Jeff Walter (03:33)
Uh-huh.
Corey Koopmans (03:36)
⁓ you know, what I think is pretty cool. The future is, know, and many people are calling it, you know, the tool belt work belt generation, because, you know, you can go out, graduate from high school without having to have a four year degree. And, know, with a small bit of training, something like, you know, six to, as many as like 18 months, you can end up with, you know, a really good paying job ranging from a starting salary of.
know, 60 to $80,000, depending on what trade you’re specializing in, could be upwards of $120,000. And I think it’s important for kids to know that those types of options are available in advance of having to make that life decision as to what to do with yourself post high school. So that’s kind of the mission we’re on. There’s a lot of states besides Indiana that are actually beginning to action more of a work-based learning curriculum or to tie that into their graduation requirements.
but Indiana is kind of a leader in this regard. And I think they’re right on the mark in terms of what needs to be done in order to encourage more people to explore a variety of different options in advance of having to make that decision post-graduation, be it go to college, go to a skilled trade school, or maybe even consider becoming an entrepreneur and just better leveraging artificial intelligence types of technologies to go start something on your own.
Jeff Walter (04:58)
Well, I so it’s it’s it so what I I I question is like and I agree with you, I you know, it’s really interesting ’cause we do a lot of work in the automotive sector, with my company, and finding skilled auto technicians has been a problem for just
year decades ever since I’ve got exposed to this. And the and the gap is you you mentioned the the one point two million, one point seven million gap I think there was. And ⁓ I I know there they’re talking about hundreds of thousands. The ne it’s the same it’s the same phenomenon. You know, for every couple of people retiring only one person’s entering and the need is growing as the vehicles get more complicated. we’re seeing the same thing, you know, big push, you know, there’s a a a site called we build submarines.
Corey Koopmans (05:16)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (05:43)
And it’s all about trying to get you talk about national security. we build submarines is all about trying to get people into the supply chain, employed in the supply chain to build submarines. and we were seeing it over and over and over again and there was some good World Economic Forum data on it a as well. I I’m curious what so it’s a big problem. You’re you’re you’re tackling it, but you you’ve had a it it it seems like something you’ve been focused on
Corey Koopmans (05:50)
Good idea.
Jeff Walter (06:09)
For many, many moons. You know, going back to a prior company that you had ⁓ higher credit, and it’s all different things that are kind of trying to tackle the same this this idea. So I’m curious what what what why this problem? What what is it about this that is ⁓ that that gets you up in the morning?
Corey Koopmans (06:11)
Yeah.
It’s interesting. so way before I got into technology and even into HR, payroll, tax credits, analytics space, I was actually a boat broker. I sold classic wood boats to people all over the world. I took that position and I kind of graduated into becoming a yacht broker down in South Florida. You know, I’d never sold a yacht to a yacht broker. So I decided that I should actually exercise my entrepreneurial skills.
And that is when I started Beyond Payroll. Beyond Payroll was a first of kind payroll brokerage company. I started that with a co-founder down in South Florida. Being from the Midwest, we eventually grew that business to the point where we needed to take in some investment capital. Long story short, I actually raised the money in Indianapolis and that’s what brought my family up here. We ran that business very successfully for
nine years and had payroll customers in at least 32 different states. think upwards of something like 800 or more payroll customers, small, medium, large, know, run the gamut. We saw customers in almost every primary industry. And I knew a lot about the unique challenges and pain points of running payroll, time and labor, benefits, workers comp, you name it. Eventually sold that business to ADP.
from there, reinvested that the proceeds into building a first of kind, HCM, which is human capital management and then workforce, optimization analytics company called analytically. Analytically was, you know, pre AI leveraging a lot of machine learning and natural language processing technologies, offer them people’s payroll, HR time and labor data, plus some of their workforce data from.
systems like their ERP or CRM to help do things like labor optimization, overtime avoidance by, know, revisiting their various different work schedules and also to measure employee effectiveness on shift over a longer period of time. So a very complex analytics business. We ended up selling that to
company owned by Fred Lutty, the founder of ServiceNow, right when COVID hit. Obviously it was really tough to go door to door selling analytics solutions during COVID, but it was a successful exit and a very cool technology for its time. While we were building analytically, I also built another company called Hire Credit. Hire Credit was a business that was geared towards helping employers identify and then capture
⁓ state and federal tax credits for hiring disadvantaged employees. And that could be some of that was previously incarcerated. It could be a single mom with dependent kids. could be, and there was like 14 different categories just in the federal sense. And because we had a lot of payroll customers and a lot of analytics businesses as customers, the thought was who doesn’t want free money? Well, interestingly,
Jeff Walter (09:17)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (09:29)
The product worked really well, ⁓ but interestingly, selling tax credits was not great from a direct to employer posture because the people that really benefited the most from leveraging this service were CPA and accounting firms because they were doing the employer’s end of year tax filings. so coming from them, the product sold much better. So we had a lot of distribution partners in the way of… ⁓
Jeff Walter (09:45)
I thought.
Okay.
Corey Koopmans (09:55)
You know, CPA and accounting firms. And then ultimately, I ended up selling higher credit to an accounting firm out in ⁓ Arizona, I believe. From there, that’s when I started to turn and get into, I guess you’d call it education technology space. That’s where, and still today, we’re heavily invested there. We, I helped co-found Entry Point SRM, which is Entry Point Student Relationship Management.
That business does a bunch of cool stuff with an AI first platform, engaging with primarily serving counselors, know, principals, student ⁓ school administrators, and helping them better access data within their student information systems and helping optimize workflows for specifically student counselors because, you know, efficacy standards for
Student to counselor ratios is something like one counselor to every 250 students and in reality It’s more like one counselor to every 475 students across not just Indiana, but most states. I don’t know about you, but I can’t possibly conceive of remembering interactions with 450 different people and and counselors are burdened with making career advice
Jeff Walter (11:00)
⁓
No. No. I think that
Corey Koopmans (11:16)
for each one of those people, let alone having the time to schedule and engage with them in a meaningful way. so Entry Point is there to help easily identify areas for improvement, opportunities around their grades, their discipline, their attendance. It also has AI meeting note capture capabilities that allows for the counselor to be completely engaged with the student. It does a summary. It creates tags that added.
that add like attribution to the student’s profile. Like, you know, Jeff said that he wanted to go to Purdue and be an engineer. Well, now that’s digitized and it’s part of the record. And now the AI can assist in making recommendations for maybe a graduation pathway or, know, because you want to be an engineer and you want to go to Purdue, maybe now we can also empower the counselor to make better advice around the type of work-based learning experience that you might.
Jeff Walter (12:00)
Uh-huh.
Corey Koopmans (12:11)
be inclined to participate in. And that was kind of the first, the first piece to the puzzle for me. And that’s when I saw the opportunity with work-based learning. And ⁓ that’s kind of the genesis of intern crew, because we’re selling entry point into a bunch of school districts across, you know, the United States actually. And specifically in Indiana, all of the school districts are like, this is an awesome platform. Can it help us do work-based learning? So that’s kind of where.
the idea of intern crew came from and ⁓ intern crew is obviously the, it’s supposed to be an intermediary or a third party that can stand in between the school, the student and the employer and make it really easy for all of them to engage. Currently, there’s a lot of challenges in heavy manufacturing or in automotive repair with respect to insurance.
Jeff Walter (13:01)
Yeah.
Corey Koopmans (13:06)
⁓ hiring someone under the age of 18 and specifically workers comp. These are three things that a lot of employers view as problematic as it pertains to supporting ⁓ internships for young people in high school.
Jeff Walter (13:19)
Yeah, and w th and that’s what I found really fascinating about it. People might well one, wow, what a what a journey. What like w
And well and it’s it’s it’s interesting. I I find the journey very, very interesting because one of the things that you know people tend to believe or think is they see somebody that’s that’s achieved something or done something and they think they were just born that way. Right? And and I keep telling you know, any you know, anybody that’s early in their career, it’s like you never know what the future holds.
Right? Like you you you you if you just get out there, work hard, opportun you know, doors open, opportunities are created. It it and the opportunities could be exactly if you’ll following you. It’s like the opportunity to they to say, hey, I think I could start a business doing X, right? It’s not just somebody saying, Here’s a paycheck. so it’s really fascinating. It’s a really fascinating journey and and ⁓ I just and that’s one of the reasons I I love understanding the journey. But the cool thing about
Corey Koopmans (13:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (14:18)
you know when we first met I had I recently ⁓ spoke over at the ASC training magic council annual conference and you know we were talking about stuff like that right so the ASC is automotive service excellence they’re focused on you know technician training in the
you know, the automotive sector, but it go it goes beyond that, includes trucks and and truck parts and and the the entire ecosystem, right? it’s not just ⁓ turning a wrench fixing an engine. But it but the thing they have all in common is it’s it’s people learning a skill, applying knowledge in a physical sense, right? Not just not not just creating you know ⁓ digital assets. physically doing something whether it’s
Corey Koopmans (14:39)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
Jeff Walter (15:00)
Parts and all that. And what I found really interesting is there was a lot of discussion about that, and there was a lot of discussion about the friction.
And then and and and it’s it’s really ⁓ amazing, miraculous in my mind, that like then a few weeks later I start talking to you and you talk about intern crew. You’re like, we remove the friction from getting allowing young you know high you know folks in in high school or early, you know, or or or maybe they’re young adults and they’re starting their career. and we remove the friction to make it easy. So ⁓ it’s the to intern in these places where you see because it
Corey Koopmans (15:17)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (15:35)
You you know, I I I want to and and you know just could you know not ⁓ just support what you said earlier. It’s like typical automotive technician, you know, sixty to eighty thousand dollars first year, five, ten years down the road, you’re making you know, into the six digits, doing really well for yourself. Like and and and people are like, huh? And then if you do stuff like large trucks and and construction equipment where you gotta go out to the site, like you’re making even more, right? And then
Corey Koopmans (15:51)
Yeah.
Right, yeah.
Jeff Walter (16:03)
And then same thing on the franchise, you know, we do a lot of work with franchises and and and and people think of franchise when I think of franchises, they usually think of quick service restaurants. But the quickest growing franchises are services.
Corey Koopmans (16:18)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (16:18)
Yeah.
And and some of them are technical, like, you know, installing signs and solar panels and all all different types of things, right? You know, it’s it’s it’s ins installing setting up things, but also personal services, you know, fitness, elder care, there you know, and it’s and and and it’s the it’s it’s that knowledge. But on the on the technical side, there’s lots and lots of people with you know specialized knowledge and doing
something and a lot of times you know it you you think of the young person as the going to work for McDonald’s as getting their foot in the door on the economic ladder.
But there are these other opportunities to work to work with a more skilled person that that makes much better money. and so it’s removing that friction, which is what I thought was really, really cool. Because that’s that is part of the problem. Most of these dealers or franchises, franchisees, they’re small businesses, it’s complicated. I don’t want to be hassled with it. But I’d love to give a you know a a young person an opportunity, right?
Corey Koopmans (17:03)
you
Yeah.
Well, mean, so what I mean over the 15 years I was involved in payroll, HR, time and labor, all of it. What’s interesting is that I was able to see this challenge from virtually every perspective. And so when it came to the student side, which, you know, I have a lot of empathy for, I have two kids myself. and I recognize that, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a big deal when kids are graduating high school, immediately thereafter, you’re supposed to be like, okay, what do want to do with your life? Well,
Jeff Walter (17:51)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (17:51)
I
just went to college because I was told I’m supposed to do that or else, you know, and my wife went to college for a marketing degree at university of Michigan. And she’s like the worst marketer ever. Like she’s an amazing controller accountant today and financial modeler. She has no business doing marketing, but she had no advice going into that college program. And I think there’s certainly a place for people to go to college and become.
Jeff Walter (17:56)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (18:20)
you know, a lawyer or, you know, a rocket scientist or whatever, but go into it eyes wide open. And I think by being able to provide people with meaningful experience, not just in skilled trade, but literally in every regard could be an accounting firm, a marketing agency, a robotics company, you know, an e-sports company, you name it, like providing kids with the means to experience that before they need to make a decision is the mission.
Jeff Walter (18:39)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (18:47)
And where I saw the opportunity was having helped employers literally across the state and most every industry over, you know, that 10, 15 year period, not just pay people on time and facilitate time and labor and benefits enrollments and onboarding and offboarding, but also talent acquisition. that’s when like intern crew just began to make a ton of sense for me because. Intern crew is the employer of record. Intern crew.
Jeff Walter (19:13)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (19:14)
operates by employing all of these interns and then basically staffing or temp agency those employees to people that were previously predisposed to say no to providing work based learning experiences for internships because they don’t want to have an accident on the job. Let’s say you’re a contractor and you you have really good workers comp rating. That’s in part important because it helps you get jobs.
It’s also important because it keeps your expenses low, which improves your margin, right? So if you have a loss and if you experience a loss, your workers’ rates go up substantially. And so that’s why employers like that typically don’t want to hire someone under the age of 18 and they don’t want to hire an intern and put them on their workers’ comp because if they do get hurt, God forbid, then all of their workers’ comp rates go through the roof. Well, intern crew is the employer of record. We take and we put the student on our…
Jeff Walter (19:43)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (20:13)
workers comp policy, we have insurance and liability coverages for that intern. We write the job description for the employer. We match that with the training plan that’s specific to the school’s requirements so that they can get credit for that work-based learning experience. And we make the reporting process effortless in terms of the data that needs to be captured to be sent back to the school or their CTE, which is a career and technical education center.
so that they can send that up information up to the state and be compliant with the Department of Education’s requirements for that experience. And in the end, what does the kid get? The kid gets a paid work-based learning experience that will help inform what he may or may want, may or may not want to do with his or her life in the future. So the goal is to not just provide one internship, but between junior and senior year, provide them with as many as
two or three different work-based learning experiences so that by the time they’re done, they have a much stronger idea as to what was interesting to them, maybe where they wanna go with their life post high school and schools benefit because by having, in Indiana anyways, by having work-based learning experience as a part of your graduation requirements, the schools end up getting paid more by the state for helping expose kids to those experiences.
Jeff Walter (21:35)
Yeah, well and and you know, going back to you know, what what we’re focused on ⁓ y building those high performing distribution channels and partner networks, those ecosystems that you know, and and using training, though the work based learning is part of the training and it goes back to the
getting more of the ev emerging workforce in. And I think there’s an important thing what what you just said is really cool is you need the exposure. So doing two, three, four, like let me let me go, you know, check out the skill trades. And maybe I’m doing one, but I’m on a construction site and I see three others, right?
But then let me, you know, let let me go work at a dealership. Let me go work at a an accounting firm. Right? Like let let me go, you know, as a as a 17, 18 year old and then sit there and go, you know, I I something about this really excited me. It it just it touched me somehow. Like I it’s it’s it’s interesting because well and because like personally that happened for me just by dumb luck. My high school in the 70s had a program.
Corey Koopmans (22:29)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Jeff Walter (22:40)
programming course. Like who had a programming s computer programming course? The seventies, right? Like no nobody. But you know, it was also the only air conditioned classroom in the in the in the high school. So it was really Yeah. And like but anyway and and as a result of that I I I went down that path and and all because when I was sixteen I got exposed to it, right? I was good in math, I liked things and you know
Corey Koopmans (22:43)
Yeah. Yeah. Nobody.
⁓ Very strategic.
Jeff Walter (23:08)
And and that set me up, you know, I I got exposed to it. And the same thing. so I think that’s really, really important. And but then the friction is is is real. And the good news is the the work-based learning is becoming a requirement. We have an intern now at our company, and I met him at a trade show. I was at a con I was at a conference in New York. So we’re out in Michigan, I’m at a conference in New York, and this this
Corey Koopmans (23:24)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:34)
This young man, you know, he’s like 21, graduating college, and he can’t graduate because he hasn’t had an internship. And and I I ended up talking to him for a few minutes. Hardworking dude, knows his stuff, and like this is a guy you wanna hire, right? Like, you know, like you just know it within a few minutes, right?
Corey Koopmans (23:40)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (23:55)
And and and we and that friction is and this is a twenty one year old, right? This isn’t a s like so it’s like he’s over eighteen, like a lot of the fr still it’s you got the friction points, you got the friction points, you got the friction points. And I’m like and so anyway, we we we’re we gave him an internship, but
Corey Koopmans (23:55)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Jeff Walter (24:10)
But it it’s a real problem and it it it goes back to it it’s harder to build these ecosystems, it’s harder to build those channel networks, it’s harder to build those dealer networks, it’s harder to build those reseller networks, it’s harder it’s it’s just harder to do everything when you have you know when there’s friction to the ⁓ to the up-and-coming generation entering the workforce and then figuring out what where
Corey Koopmans (24:37)
Right.
Jeff Walter (24:39)
where they can give their gifts. Yeah, because the the way I look at those three internships that you you know you know a kid might have in high school is like they’re figuring out where the where their gifts are most valuable, where they where they can give their gifts. Yeah, might might be really good with numbers and and could be a great accountant but it it it is not feeling it. She’s not feeling it.
Corey Koopmans (24:41)
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (25:05)
But then she tries something else and she’s like, I feel it. And I actually it’s funny, I’m sorry, d d there you go. My my my late life my late wife. Exactly same thing. Went to college, became an accountant, very because she was good with math, right? And and sh she was an excellent accountant.
Corey Koopmans (25:19)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (25:22)
wasn’t her thing. She became a psych you know, so in i in in her mid twenties she went back to school and became a psychologist. Right? And those are like, you know, you think like polar opposite type things. But it’s that type of thing. Like she went she reflected and she’s like, Well, when I was in school I took these psychology courses and I really enjoyed them. And so then she started exploring that and it’s like, you know, now
Corey Koopmans (25:28)
Yeah.
Yep.
Jeff Walter (25:46)
We were able to do that and a bunch of other things. But th it’s that it’s to me it keeps going back to removing the friction to to let the young y young adults, folks entering the workforce experiment that and I think that’s really cool. Very cool.
Corey Koopmans (25:57)
I mean, it’s expensive
lessons to learn, right? Like when you go to college, you build a career and then you’re like, well, I can do it, but just because you can doesn’t mean you should sometimes, you know, go find your life’s passion. Like this is the thing that I think we’re wrestling with. I mean, we’re struggling with national debt issues and we’re trying to help kids pay off college debt.
Jeff Walter (26:01)
Yeah, yeah. Well hers was really expensive.
Zycran.
No.
Right.
Corey Koopmans (26:24)
in certain ways and literally the longest unemployed or underemployed of our population right now is recent college graduates. And that’s a problem.
Jeff Walter (26:33)
Yeah. Yeah.
Well i ⁓ and again going to personal experience and and you know we’re we’re older, but she got her undergrad and then proceeded to get her masters because you can earn an extra, you know, however many however much money in taxation without ever having step foot in an accounting and then and then start working, making really good money.
Corey Koopmans (26:46)
Bye.
Jeff Walter (26:56)
And going, I don’t really like it here. I don’t I I don’t I I don’t like the culture of the industry. It’s not it it I I I’m good at it, but it’s not it’s not it’s i i i I I I feel like I’m not giving my gifts, right? I can do the job, I can make a good living, but it’s it’s not and then you know, and then she started looking and you talk about expensive. She got an undergraduate degree and a master’s degree. Those things were not free.
Corey Koopmans (26:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Walter (27:23)
Right? And then decided, you know, this isn’t really what you know, what I want. So now you multiply that on ma you know, like that’s a massive amount of time and energy you know, that that can be more efficiently used. And a and how many other people would be discouraged, right?
Corey Koopmans (27:37)
Well.
Right.
It’s funny, you know, in culture scores and in doing a lot of workforce, workforce, like analysis, money is never the number one intrinsic motivator for why people come to work. Like it’s, in the top three, but it’s not one. It’s not number one. People want to feel like connected to others or connected to their work or that they’re using their gifts. As you’d said, ⁓ that’s like,
Jeff Walter (28:07)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (28:08)
much more important and being appreciated for what they do than just compensation. so, yeah, back to the point where, you know, helping people sort of get exposure to a lot of these different things earlier in the process is certainly a mission for me right now with intern crew. And if it’s not workers comp issues, it’s to your point, it’s the onboarding process. And I can tell you, I’ve worked for a couple of big businesses. I’ve helped tons of small businesses.
none of them have a good onboarding process. Like if the HR team is gonna support the internship, right? Like, is the intern gonna get a good onboarding experience? mean, usually it’s the least friendly part of anything you do with a company. Like everyone’s grumpy. There’s no automation to it usually. It’s like a lot of paper and everyone’s like, why are they doing that this way? And it’s like, you know, they’re just asking you random questions without any context and like.
Jeff Walter (28:39)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (29:03)
with intern crew and onboarding all of the interns to us, it’s like, it’s going to be highly automated. It’s going to be friendly. We’re telling them what to expect out of the job. We’re providing them with like good information in advance of their first day on the job. We’re providing them with like, you know, the best of breed technologies to be able to go out and do their job, capture the time, know, provide the feedback about the internship in a really efficient way. in nowadays you’re talking to kids, right? This is the future.
the future is our kids. All of them are better with technology than any of us ever will be. And they appreciate what good looks like and they know what bad looks like. so preventing them from the one-off HR onboarding nightmares that occur in small businesses all over America and creating a more positive experiences is another way to move past the…
Jeff Walter (29:34)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (30:00)
You know, in some ways it’s like, I don’t like that because that lady at the HR department was grumpy. Like maybe they liked the profession, but they didn’t like the company. You know, like that could be a problem. We’re trying to remove those pieces of friction.
Jeff Walter (30:07)
Right.
Yeah, and well and and ⁓ again getting back to the automotive stuff, the technician, it it it’s real because at scale it is highly, you know, i ⁓ i inefficient and and and is you know burns through a lot of time and energy and mu and money. Like on the stats on the on the ⁓ autotech side, a third of the graduates of a program
Corey Koopmans (30:28)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (30:36)
Whether it’s in high school or or a vocational program after high school, a third of them never enter the industry. Right? Like, and then a third of the two-thirds left leave the industry within six months. So if you think about it, it’s like to your point, it’s they get an idea that this is what I want to do. They they
Corey Koopmans (30:49)
Huh.
Jeff Walter (30:56)
go through a program to be trained to do that. And then a third of them go, no thank you. And that’s a lot of time and money. And then and then of the two-thirds left, another third go, within six months, not for me. And that’s half. That you know when you add it all up, that’s half of the the cohort is is that finished. These are not, you know, they didn’t drop out. They finished.
Corey Koopmans (31:02)
Yeah.
Interesting.
Jeff Walter (31:20)
The program and within six months half of are not have left the industry. You know, they’ve never entered it
Corey Koopmans (31:25)
Let’s unpack that a little bit though,
because honestly, so they spend a lot of time learning how to work on a car or a truck. They didn’t get a lot of time on like how to be polished when it comes to doing an interview once you’ve graduated or where to go for a job. And I think like that’s another place where intern crews plans to sit in the middle. want to help, like there’s continuity challenges with people that support internships today at a high school level or post high school.
Jeff Walter (31:33)
Right. Yeah.
Corey Koopmans (31:55)
level where they have they support the internship and then the interns done the school Moves on to the next student the student isn’t good with their social skills and they have no means of like staying in touch with the employer the employer and the student lose there because The the cost to acquire talent is on average for even a manufacturing job It’s like three thousand dollars to recruit and place somebody like this is going to drive down the cost of recruitment If you can tie the two together
Jeff Walter (32:20)
No yeah.
Corey Koopmans (32:25)
together better and intern crew does a better job of vetting the employer partners that it has. You know, it works with like, you know, people that are doing good things in the industry that have a positive and healthy work culture and, know, operate safely and all these things. And, and it’s going to do a better job of marketing the kids that are available for work. Once they’ve graduated through a certification school, be it an automotive or HVAC or electrical. so to kind of stand in the middle and help.
Jeff Walter (32:31)
Uh-huh.
Corey Koopmans (32:53)
I’d say bring things to fruition would be the goal. mean, in the challenges you were to start articulating, I think some of it’s because, you know, they have the skills now and they don’t have the skills to get a job or they have the skills and they got a job, but with an employer that really wasn’t a good fit for them. But that doesn’t mean that you should just be done. Right. And I think
Jeff Walter (33:15)
Well th th th that’s the thing. Like when you said you know, the the the the with the school and the student losing touch with the employer, that’s assuming you had a work a work ⁓ work learning s you know, it’s it’s assuming you had an internship, right? Like the you know, what we talked about this particular thing is like it’s they’re going through the schooling
Corey Koopmans (33:30)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (33:39)
They go through the vocational program. They never actually set foot in a shop other than the school shop. And and and and then, you know, a bunch of them are learning that th the the ones that get leave the industry within six months, they’re like, to your point, they had an experience with an employer. They assume all employers are like that. But then the flip side, you know, to flip it around the other way,
Corey Koopmans (33:44)
Hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (34:03)
A and again I don’t want to just focus on automotive, but I think it’s just so instructive of all these other technical skilled skilled tra skilled not not even trades, skilled positions. like like you said earlier, and I wanna keep reminding it’s like that includes accounting, bookkeeping, marketing, data analysis, that like there’s there’s s nursing, CNAs within nursing, you know, or
Corey Koopmans (34:09)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
nursing.
Yep.
Jeff Walter (34:30)
or AIDS. you know, it’s it there’s so many different service business. It it also includes fitness coaches, right? Like I mean, you know, like like it it’s but but just using that it’s it’s the whole the value of the work-based learning is getting that exposure and and sitting there going, well hey, no, this is not what I want.
Corey Koopmans (34:38)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (34:53)
Right. I d I yeah, maybe I experienced one or two and and it’s not the type of environment I want to hang my hat in. Or maybe and or it is and I’m I’m sold. Right? Because on the flip side, one of the things ⁓ you know, and and it’s and it keeps getting back to the friction point, you know, one of the topics of conversation at that conference was the dealers that do engage in internships.
Corey Koopmans (34:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (35:18)
Well, they get like the pick of the litter. You know, like they they get these students, they get to test them out, the student gets and then the student is like, Yeah, I like it here. And they’re like, Yeah, I like this you know, she’s a great tech. And ⁓ and then boom, and to and and they are able to get their talent pipeline filled
Corey Koopmans (35:20)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (35:41)
And then to your point earlier, you know, I was just I just gave a presentation at the International Franchise Expo, and we’re and there were and the one of the topics was ⁓ turnover, right? And it’s like like you said, it’s like it costs three to four thousand or you know, like thousands of dollars to and you know I but I I I was saying to the audience who said, well that’s just the surface cost.
Corey Koopmans (35:56)
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (36:03)
Like that’s
the that’s the cost of actually just replacing the body, right? By the t you know, by the time you search and all that kind of stuff. The real cost is all the know how that just went out the door.
Corey Koopmans (36:08)
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Jeff Walter (36:16)
Right. The real cost is the variability in your operations because a person who knew something just left. And and I and I told them, you know, and it’s and and it makes sense intellectually, but it’s hard to feel I I I interviewed a blind a franchise that was it’s a blinds company. They d they do blind and you know f window blinds, you know. and they they monitor Google reviews.
Corey Koopmans (36:37)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (36:43)
of all of all their locations. And they proactively reach out to a franchisee when they see the reviews drop. And invariably, the majority of the time when they when they say, Hey, what’s going on? We saw your reviews drop, blah blah blah, it’s one of my better installers left. And
Corey Koopmans (36:58)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (37:01)
And that’s the real cost. It’s not the three thousand dollars to replace It’s all of a sudden
Corey Koopmans (37:03)
Yes.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (37:06)
That particular franchise saw a marked drop in their reviews because they had a because they had some turnover. And then that on and then that’s the talent pipeline, getting that talented folks, getting a good fix. Yeah, they hired somebody, they kind of sort of worked out, we had to find somebody else. Like and and all of that is time. And during that time your operations are struggling or and and that’s the real cost.
Corey Koopmans (37:32)
Right.
Jeff Walter (37:35)
And so I I just
Corey Koopmans (37:36)
Actually, there’s a whiplash
in the organization as a result of that too. Some people that are steady eddy within an organization like that get burnt out literally by regularly having to train the new person to fill the role for the guy that left. It begs the question, what else should you be doing there to bolster culture or retention? But you’re right. There’s real impact to contribution margin. There’s real impact to throughput and efficiency.
Jeff Walter (37:50)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (38:04)
And there’s real impact to what gets delivered to customers as a result of that turnover. know, entering crew won’t be able to fix all of that. But I do think hiring better and earlier and getting people into positions where they like or love what they’re doing all works in favor of them having a better retention record and hopefully enjoying the place that they’re working.
Jeff Walter (38:21)
Yeah.
Corey Koopmans (38:30)
and liking what they do. So yeah, I mean, there’s no one silver bullet solution for any of this, but we do need to be insuring up some of it because, you know, in addition to helping the employers and doing some community good, they’re like, I hear a lot from folks in Indiana. They want to keep talent from Indiana in Indiana. And there’s this drain that happens in other States that are doing a better job of recruitment or placement or apprenticeships and you name it. And I think,
Jeff Walter (38:49)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (38:58)
Yeah, if we can just kind of bring it back home and do it in a meaningful way, like it’s going to do good on all sides of the.
Jeff Walter (39:04)
Yeah, well and and and you’re right, there I mean there is no silver bullet.
But but there are things that can do like one of the things I like about what what you’re doing is it’s removing some of that friction. So that if you want to do this, it’s easier. Right? I’m not running payroll for b you know, I don’t have to set up and run payroll for a a bunch of a couple of interns. I just get it’s it becomes an outcounts payable instead of an HR thing. Right? You know, you you you just you just get a an invoice from from you guys and and so it’s
Corey Koopmans (39:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (39:35)
it it becomes simple, it’s like any other bill and from a from a mechanics standpoint. So that takes one piece out. Yeah the the other piece is thinking of it as an employer as part of your recruiting pipeline. It’s like I’m doing this from a recruiting pipeline perspective and I get to try before I buy, right? And and
Corey Koopmans (39:42)
Yeah.
Exactly. Try it before you buy it. And actually
working with intern crew, while I can’t certify it on every customer in every state, but in the state of Indiana anyways, for employers that are hiring kids that are under the age of 18 or that are still in high school and they get a work-based learning experience, in many cases they’re eligible for this thing called the Earn Grant. And so the Earn Grant will reimburse the employer for up to 50 % of the student’s wages, not 50 % of what I’m charging because I have a markup on my fees.
Jeff Walter (40:23)
wow.
Corey Koopmans (40:26)
But what it does is it effectively nullifies the cost of intern crew being in the middle of the interaction. And so it effectively pays for our services to play in the middle. And it helps to sort of subsidize the services we’re providing and making it easier for the employer, for the student and the school. And because I’ve built and sold a tax credit company, the whole earn grant automation process is really easy for us.
Jeff Walter (40:26)
Right.
Ha ha ha ⁓
I think I think you might have some ⁓ some ⁓ particular knowledge there from building higher from developing higher credit, you know. Well I yeah well the other thing too, just to talk just to promote internship work-based learning in general, and and going back to your silver bullet thing, and to ⁓ to folks out there that might be listening that are running a franchise or or a
Corey Koopmans (40:58)
Yeah.
Right.
Jeff Walter (41:17)
Or or the franchise or or a manufacturer or a dealer. there’s another benefit too. not only, you know, p pick up the litter, try it before you buy, all that type of stuff. But also, look, you you your company are like like well just use that intern I just talked about. Look, we’re not hiring right now. I’m I’m not going to hire this young man permanently because
Corey Koopmans (41:35)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (41:40)
I I don’t I don’t need staff at this moment in time. But we’re still doing it because I paired him up with one of our staff who was in the same position a number of years ago, right? And then and they have similar roles, and so that’s his mentor. And my guy, my who the my employee is getting so much joy out of giving back.
Corey Koopmans (41:53)
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (42:05)
you know, paying it forward. You know, it’s it’s not the, my God, another employee, I gotta onboard, cause like it’s it’s like somebody helped me go forward. You know, I now have the opportunity while I’m making muck to help somebody else.
Corey Koopmans (42:07)
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (42:27)
Right? And so it’s it’s it’s all part of building that culture, right? Like they get to share their gifts and it makes being here more meaningful for for him.
Corey Koopmans (42:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (42:37)
Because he is in an environment where he can help the next guy just like somebody helped him. And it’s and so it’s it’s it’s so even if you’re not in a hiring situation, it’s a it’s a it’s a very positive thing to have because it it it creates a positive s virtuous cycle within your organization. It’s what I’ve seen. Yeah, we we’ve had in in
Corey Koopmans (42:54)
Hmm.
That’s a really great observation.
It’s so cool. mean, you must have a great culture at your company to be able to have it in play, actually come back and tell you that. I wish you could put that in a bottle and sell it because that’s what we need more of. Once you’ve solved the great, we’ll make it easy for you. We’ll onboard them. You have to create a culture or activate individuals within the employers that you’re looking to place interns through to be willing to do that.
Jeff Walter (43:22)
Yeah.
Corey Koopmans (43:26)
be even just willing to do it, but do it well and maybe even, you know, find some joy in it because you’re right. Like I think in many ways I’ve had cool mentor experiences in my career in all of them. And, ⁓ and I like to pay it forward too. So granted, ⁓ I get the most joy out of engaging with young people that are biased towards entrepreneurship, but generally speaking,
Jeff Walter (43:37)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, same here.
Corey Koopmans (43:49)
That’s why I love engaging so much with business owners, right? Because so many of them are entrepreneurs and you’re right. I think there’s definitely this element of pay it forward and I’m just respecting, you know.
the future because you know, maybe your stuff works great, but you’re right. Like everyone has to have a mind for what happens tomorrow and you know, helping your industry as a whole grow starts by doing small things at the community level, like supporting an internship, even though you don’t need a full-time placement.
Jeff Walter (44:19)
I
i well and well it to and to me it it not to get and and this I think also is you know i if you’re building these networks, it’s I I believe culture is upstream of everything else. And and what I’ve seen firsthand ⁓ in companies I’ve built and and organizations I’ve been a part of as an employee, is
Corey Koopmans (44:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (44:40)
The ability of the capability of people, they can achieve amazing things. And it’s all dependent on whether or not you have the right culture. And and ⁓ and and then and if you have the right culture, that your team will just go through hell and back and it and achieve amazing things. If you have the wrong culture,
Corey Koopmans (44:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
yeah, absolutely.
Jeff Walter (45:06)
they’ll stop at the first hiccup, right? Like like and it’s just it’s just amazing and and to to to me. I just like a c a culture. So yeah, it I and the and the pay it forward, the the you know, we’ve all had mentors, we’ve all had how people have helped. And so it and it’s interesting. So when you you see organizations like that, it’s like, hey, not surprising. Those are the organizations tend to doing pretty well. And but I would, you know, I would definitely say out there, just to an anybody listening
Corey Koopmans (45:08)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (45:35)
you know, there’s a value for your own culture to engaging interns and your people and and the g they get to give their gifts back and they get to they get to share and it’s it’s a it’s you know it’s a it’s a positive for your organization. Whether you’re looking, you know, whether you need the intern in the future or not, it’s just a positive thing. It’s a pa it’s a very positive thing is what we’ve seen. And so we do that continually, but I would encourage everybody else to do that.
Corey Koopmans (45:54)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (46:03)
So
Corey Koopmans (46:03)
That’s great. mean, that’s
like one of the best ways to improve the challenge I talked about earlier, where there’s 1.25 million people in skilled trades right now. And we need about 2.7 million, ultimately. Even if you don’t need an employee. Right, if we don’t need an employee, you want to foster what’s best for your industry. And it starts with internships.
Jeff Walter (46:17)
Right. So another another one point two million.
Yes.
Yeah. I I it well it’s the foot in the door. It’s it’s getting and and and and the other thing it’s I I’m sorry, just a lot of different personal experiences. so was just talking to somebody the other day and she’s in her mid twenties and she’s a data scientist and she’s like she’s amazing, right? Like she just
Corey Koopmans (46:33)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (46:50)
Stuff I just you know, over my head, right? But anyway, she was an intern at a at a car dealership and she parking cars. And y you sit there and go, you know, when you know, back in her yung you know, she’s only in her mid twenties, so that you know. And she talks about what the f so obviously did not go down that route, right? You know, didn’t but
Corey Koopmans (46:52)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (47:12)
talks about with the fond with such fondness. It was such a great experience. And she learned all these different things in terms of the culture, in terms of interrelate you know, relating with people. So like even if it’s one of the, you know, the three, you know, you mentioned earlier, you did three you did three or four of these in in your junior senior year, and maybe they maybe one hits, maybe none hit, right?
Corey Koopmans (47:35)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (47:36)
You’re you’re you’re building th they’re still taking away a set of skills to go forward and if it and it reflects well on your organization. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, good.
Corey Koopmans (47:45)
Right. You know, so,
you know, she was parking cars. One of the most important jobs I’ve ever had in my whole life was that was a boat detailer in college. was a boat detailer at Gull Lake Marina. And that is where I met my wife. That is where I moved from being a boat detailer who worked at night, ⁓ becoming like one of their top boat salespeople.
And that’s kind of like where my whole life started honestly was by being a boat detailer. You know, that’s how I got into the marine industry. That’s how I met my wife. So you never know where life happens. And it starts with those unique work experiences, honestly.
Jeff Walter (48:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, so so Corey j we’re we’re we’ve been just shifting gears a little. you there’s a lot of other interesting things going on and you’re you’re focused a lot on AI. And and AI I I think it’s another one of you know it’s another one of those step functions in in the economy, you know, just like you know, the internet just like
Corey Koopmans (48:40)
Okay.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (48:46)
client server computing, just like mainframe computing, just like electricity, just like steam engine. It’s another one of those big step functions. we we talked a lot about the need to engage the emerging you know citizen.
or emerging person, you know, coming out of high school or you know, late teens, early twenties, getting them engaged in the workforce, finding the right fit for them so they can share their gifts. How do you see and I think with AI, quite frankly, we’re all just at the beginning. I I was just talking to somebody the other day, I was like, it’s the same thing with every in technological innovation. The first thing you do is pave the cow paths.
Corey Koopmans (49:26)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (49:26)
And then somebody
figures out, no, what we really need is a super highway, right? But you y you don’t see it at first, right? so I’m curious from your perspective, you you you how how can you see or how do you see or do or do you see that that to AI helping address this issue? Or or how how can it how how can it how can it help
Corey Koopmans (49:30)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (49:51)
S how can it be another piece of the pie to solve this problem?
Corey Koopmans (49:55)
The problem, the education related problem or the.
Jeff Walter (49:58)
Well,
education get and getting the ki you know, getting the exposure, getting kids into the workforce, getting you know, the it’s you know, it how do you you know, any any thoughts on that in terms of it’s a it’s a tough nut to crack. I haven’t thought about that. So I I don’t have an answer. Well, let me just say I don’t have an answer.
Corey Koopmans (50:12)
It’s a, I’m not an expert here, but I would say,
I would say that, we’re just getting started with AI, and what it’s capable of. It’s growth and capabilities is on this exponential that almost no one listening can fathom. It’s, it’s growth, exponential growth and capability set is it is unfathomable.
Jeff Walter (50:30)
Right.
Corey Koopmans (50:37)
⁓ I think in the not too distant future, it’s going to dramatically change education in a bunch of really profoundly positive ways. I also think that it’s going to give kids that are willing to engage with it superpowers because it’s going to, in many ways, cut out the need for a four year degree. The most AI
Jeff Walter (50:54)
Uh-huh.
Corey Koopmans (51:00)
enabled or AI focused like youth are the ones that are going to be getting some of the best jobs over the next five and 10 years. I mean, if you’re really savvy with AI and how to use it in a specific context, you’re going to have a better shot at landing a position than a predecessor that’s been in that space for five and 10 years, but is not as well versed with that technology. And so
I think it’s important for young people across the board to engage with AI technologies and to find a way in which it aligns with their passions or aligns with an area that they deem as a personal strength. Because if you use it the right way, it will give you a leg up against anybody else that’s applying for a position in an area that they have an interest.
Jeff Walter (51:50)
Well that I that I I like that. That’s a it’s I like the way you phrased it initially as it’s a superpower, right? Because it’s a multiplier.
Corey Koopmans (51:57)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (51:59)
And and you know, I I mean we’re we’re seeing that here just in in inside the office and we’re we’re busy paving cow paths, right? And then we and then we get a spark of, hey, here’s something we couldn’t do before, but you know pretty much we’re just we it we’re we’re able to do much more with fewer and and and and we’re a software company, right? So it’s it’s all digital. Everything we do is digital.
Corey Koopmans (51:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (52:22)
And
⁓ and I think it’s really interesting because it it’s going to take that next generation to think through how do you apply this to all these other different especially more hands-on technical skills and how can it become a superpower. And that’s where you I think ten years from now you end up with this generation going, Okay, here’s the super highway.
Right, here’s the thing, like you know, like and I tell people like with the internet. I I mean I was there when that all happened in the late eighties late nineties I mean and and you know during the dot com boom and bust. And nobody thought of social media. Like it it wasn’t even a th like I and I tell this to people just to give them perspective. When Twitter came out when when it was launched
Corey Koopmans (52:42)
and
Jeff Walter (53:02)
You know, you could only put 140 characters, which is a text, because texts could only be 140 characters at time. And there was a reviewer that said, How can this possibly have any value? Yeah, what are you going to do? Like text you know, s say I’m you know, I’m going to the store for cake. Like like they like they just they they couldn’t imagine it having any
Corey Koopmans (53:13)
You
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (53:23)
value and and and it was just one example of social media right and when facebo came out I tell this to my kids so I’m sorry to just when Facebook came out it was a Facebook and they were like you know they they think of Facebook as just the company I’m like no when I was in grad school they put a book together with everybody’s the entire class’s face in it and it was called the Facebook and that’s what Facebook was
Corey Koopmans (53:27)
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Jeff Walter (53:48)
And and and ⁓ and and and but obviously it it it morphed into this thing that nobody had ever seen. And I I I bring that up and it’s kind of you know, y y you laugh at it now because you’re you know, we’re twenty, you know, fifteen years into social media and and you’re like and you’re like, well that’s not you know, Twitter and Facebook and and and you know, all the other so you know, they’re these amazing pieces of technology that allowed interconnectedness. They’ve got their pluses and minuses.
And we can criticize them. But the ability to share information globally or or locally or finding the niche ⁓ setup like it’s just amazing, this hyper connectivity. and and we’re still grappling with what the ramifications are of that as a as a society. anyway.
Corey Koopmans (54:25)
Yeah.
So
just last night actually, my 11 year old son, he likes to collect Pokemon cards and basketball and football and baseball cards. And he’s like, dad, I need a way to organize this. I was like, we’ll just use Grok to ask to build a spreadsheet so that you can track this stuff. And then he did that and he gets this really cool spreadsheet and he doesn’t even know how to type yet. He’s been upstairs.
all of last night and he’s still up on the computer today entering in like all of the details about his cards and he’s like loving it. Well, last night after he went to bed, I came downstairs, I used Grok and what I did is I built a software that uses my web camera and every five seconds when I show a card to the camera and then hit the space bar, it’ll go look up the price, it’ll log it, it’ll determine the quality, it’ll take a picture.
it’ll fill out the whole spreadsheet for me. And so I can do like one card every three seconds without typing anything. And I don’t want to show them that yet, but you know, that’s, that’s the capability of AI. If you know what a problem looks like, and if you can create a prompt to help solve for it, those are the types of opportunities that I think kids should get more engaged with and how to use AI because it’s like, it’s like amazing, you know?
Jeff Walter (55:34)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, I well and and I and I think it’s gonna take your son you know, folks like your son’s generation or that that growing up with it, you you just start to see things in a different light. and and and come up with solutions that we hadn’t thought of.
Corey Koopmans (56:01)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (56:05)
So it’s it’s fascinating. So so Corey, what’s ⁓ you know, w we’ve we’ve covered a lot of ground, but what any what does the future hold and ⁓ for you and ⁓ w wha what’s your next set of companies?
Corey Koopmans (56:05)
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Well,
you know, I’m definitely content with Entry Point and intern crew at this point. I do think that there’s potential to invest more into the skilled trades like at the electrical, HVAC, plumbing, like actual do the work level. think that there’s a lot of…
opportunity for growth and efficiency there and just to support, you know, the need for more talent in that space. You know, I’m loving what we’re doing. I think that there’s a lot of opportunity for expansion with intern crew into several other states, not just in a K-12 context, but also in a higher ed context. There’s a need to support internships and there’s a lot of room for just growth and networking there. And obviously staying
Jeff Walter (56:59)
Uh-huh.
Corey Koopmans (57:04)
close to all the latest in terms of changes and what’s possible with AI as a fascination. Long-term goal for myself and my wife and our family is to build some businesses that we can invite our kids to be able to participate in. The funnest thing my son has done this year, I think, was actually a garage sale. My wife and I worked all day. He literally worked a garage sale.
He made a couple hundred dollars. He was just absolutely loving it. And I think it’s a soft way to start working on your salesmanship skills and, you know, giving them more cool opportunities like that is near and dear to our hearts and, you know, trying to solve problems at the macro level for kids at large, but, you know, also at the same time, wrestling with just being a parent of two kids and helping them navigate and, you know, find,
bright spot in their future.
Jeff Walter (57:59)
Well I I I I do believe that’s the most important job there is is raising the kids. So congratulations and and I and I think the the the garage sale thing is it’s a great l lesson. With my with my daughters, when they were younger, we would go clean out the basement. You know, we’d do our spring cleaning and there was and everything went into three piles. Garbage, donate,
an ebay. And one of my daughters di ran the eBay account and
Corey Koopmans (58:27)
nice.
Jeff Walter (58:28)
And ⁓ it built those like you know, and sa same you know, very similar type thing like the grocery show, right? Like not so much the interpersonal skills, but like getting on, pricing things, and she started you know, she starts started running a little business on eBay, including things like I sent the wrong thing to the you know, somebody gave me gave me a you know, somebody bought this for a dollar and I sent them the ten dollar item and then I don’t
$10 item to stent that like you had to deal with customer service, and I’m like, okay, well, you know, you’re not gonna get that more expensive item back, you know, and you gotta you gotta refund the person and you gotta take the loss and you know apologize for that, and then reach out to the person that you know you sent the more expensive thing to and say, hey, we sent you the wrong thing. Do you want the thing we sent you?
Corey Koopmans (58:52)
Nice.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (59:14)
Yeah, I mean that you ordered and yeah, but you know, learning customer service and and how to handle money and then then online and it it was it was a great set of skills. So so I I would say double down on all that. That was all that’s all that was it’s amazing.
Corey Koopmans (59:27)
He wanted to actually, he
wanted to have an eBay store last year. was like, well, how about you do a garage sale first? And that is a step function. Once you learn how to type, you can have an eBay store.
Jeff Walter (59:37)
Yeah.
I th I think the typing thing is. Well yeah, but that’s that’s awesome. That’s a yeah, th th they were in middle school then, so they’re they’re a little older. ⁓ so I would I would encourage that ’cause I think it’s great. So and hey, ⁓ as we’re wrapping up, if somebody wanted to get a hold of you or ⁓ intern crew, ha what’s the best way? We’re we’ll we’ll we’ll put the links in the show notes, but what’s the best way to get a hold of you guys?
Corey Koopmans (59:47)
Nice.
Yeah.
Just visit interncrew.com. Interncrew.com. I’ve got scheduling. There’s a form to submit for interest or you can just schedule a meeting with me there directly.
Jeff Walter (1:00:14)
Cory, thank you thank you so much for taking time out of your day to to hang out with us and I gr I greatly appreciate it. It it was a really fun conversation. be especially ’cause it’s it’s tackling a bigger issue than, you know, my company, your company, just you know, how do we
you you know, take how do we help people share their gifts with especially young people entering the workforce share their gifts. And then by the way we as get to then benefit from all that and it’s so it’s a win-win. And so you’re you’re you know it’s been a fun conversation. I appreciate your time.
Corey Koopmans (1:00:47)
Thank you
so much for having me on, this was great.
Jeff Walter (1:00:49)
Yeah, and to everybody out there, thanks for listening and we’ll see you next time. Take care. Bye.
Corey Koopmans (1:00:53)
Bye.