Hosted by Jeff Walter, Founder and CEO of LatitudeLearning
Organizations invest millions of dollars each year in sales training. They develop onboarding programs, purchase learning platforms, implement new methodologies, and continually refine their sales processes in pursuit of better results. Yet despite these investments, many sales leaders continue to ask the same question: Why do some people consistently outperform others when everyone has access to the same training, the same tools, and the same products?
In this episode of the Training Impact Podcast, Jeff Walter sits down with Amy Lemire, Founder of AIM Training & Consulting Inc., to explore that very question. Their conversation moves beyond traditional sales techniques to examine the habits, behaviors, and mindset that drive sustained performance. Rather than focusing solely on what sales professionals know, they discuss what enables individuals to consistently apply that knowledge in ways that produce meaningful business results.
Drawing on a career that spans medical technology sales, leadership, coaching, and consulting, Lemire has developed a philosophy that expands the traditional definition of sales enablement. Instead of viewing training as the transfer of knowledge alone, she encourages organizations to think about performance as the product of both technical capability and personal development. According to her experience, sales professionals who invest in strengthening their habits often discover that their technical skills become significantly more effective as a result.
This perspective resonates far beyond sales organizations. As Jeff Walter and Amy Lemire discuss throughout the episode, learning and development leaders are increasingly being asked to improve measurable business performance rather than simply deliver courses. That challenge requires organizations to think differently about how learning translates into behavior and how behavior ultimately influences business outcomes.
Amy Lemire’s professional journey began immediately after college in the medical technology industry, where she developed her expertise as a sales professional before moving into leadership and training responsibilities. While she enjoyed the competitive nature of selling, she discovered an equally rewarding opportunity in helping other sales professionals improve their performance.
Working with new hires and experienced sellers exposed an interesting pattern. Organizations were generally effective at teaching sales techniques, product knowledge, and process, but far less attention was given to the personal behaviors that determined whether those techniques were consistently applied. Two sales professionals could complete the same training program and possess similar technical abilities, yet achieve dramatically different results because of differences in confidence, discipline, preparation, resilience, and daily habits.
That observation became the foundation of AIM Training & Consulting Inc. Rather than creating another consulting practice focused exclusively on sales methodology, Lemire built her business around helping organizations strengthen both the technical and behavioral dimensions of performance. Sales consulting, coaching, leadership development, and professional growth became interconnected services designed to improve not only what people know, but how they apply that knowledge every day.
Her philosophy reflects an increasingly important trend within corporate learning. As organizations place greater emphasis on measurable business outcomes, many are recognizing that technical instruction alone rarely creates lasting performance improvements. Sustainable growth depends on helping people develop behaviors that reinforce learning long after formal training has ended.
Perhaps the most memorable concept introduced during the discussion is Lemire’s analogy comparing successful sales professionals to a bicycle.
The front wheel represents technical skills. These are the competencies most organizations invest heavily in developing, including prospecting, qualification, discovery conversations, presentations, negotiation, objection handling, and closing techniques. These skills provide the mechanics of selling and establish the foundation upon which professional success is built.
The back wheel represents habits.
According to Lemire, habits provide the driving force that allows technical skills to produce consistent results. Without productive habits, even highly skilled sales professionals often struggle to maintain performance over time. Technical knowledge may explain how to perform an activity, but habits determine whether those activities occur consistently enough to generate meaningful outcomes.
She describes this relationship through what she calls a success equation, explaining that thoughts influence habits, habits influence actions, and actions ultimately determine results. The equation shifts attention away from isolated sales activities and toward the behaviors that shape those activities long before a customer meeting ever begins. Preparation, confidence, accountability, resilience, and disciplined routines become just as important as product expertise or negotiation techniques because they influence how effectively every technical skill is applied.
Jeff Walter expands on this distinction by describing habits as the force that brings technical skills to life. Learning a sales technique provides capability, but developing productive habits ensures that capability is used consistently. It is this combination of skills and behaviors, rather than either element alone, that produces sustained performance.
For learning leaders, this represents an important shift in perspective. Traditional training programs often concentrate on helping people acquire new knowledge while assuming behavioral change will occur naturally. Lemire challenges that assumption by suggesting that organizations should intentionally develop habits alongside technical skills if they expect learning to produce measurable business results.
The conversation continues by exploring what Lemire describes as the four pillars of effective sales organizations. Rather than relying on a single methodology or isolated training initiative, she believes organizations should build an integrated framework that supports performance from multiple directions.
The first pillar is the sales process. Most organizations already possess some version of this framework, defining the sequence of activities that moves opportunities from prospecting through closing. A well-designed process creates consistency, establishes expectations, and provides visibility into how opportunities progress through the sales pipeline.
The second pillar is the sales playbook, which Lemire distinguishes from the process itself. While the process outlines the sequence of activities, the playbook provides the broader body of knowledge that supports those activities. It includes best practices, value propositions, objection handling strategies, competitive positioning, executive conversations, customer insights, and practical resources that help sales professionals navigate real-world situations. Much like a sports team’s playbook, it equips individuals with options rather than prescribing a single response for every circumstance.
The third pillar focuses on methodology. To explain the distinction, Lemire uses a simple travel analogy. If the sales process resembles GPS directions that identify each turn required to reach a destination, methodology represents the strategy behind the journey. It shapes how sales professionals approach conversations, engage customers, and create value throughout the buying process. Her preferred methodology is Challenger, which encourages sellers to begin by helping customers recognize business challenges before introducing products or solutions. This approach changes the conversation from selling products to solving meaningful business problems.
The fourth pillar, and the one she believes organizations overlook most often, is habit development. While companies frequently document processes and invest in sales methodologies, they rarely devote the same level of attention to helping individuals strengthen the personal behaviors that sustain long-term success. Confidence, accountability, productive work habits, resilience, and disciplined execution become the connecting force that allows the other three pillars to operate together.
Rather than treating these elements as independent initiatives, Lemire views them as components of a unified enablement strategy. When organizations invest in all four areas simultaneously, they create an environment where learning becomes repeatable, coaching becomes more effective, and performance becomes more consistent across the entire sales organization.
As the conversation moves beyond Amy Lemire’s philosophy, it begins to explore a question that many learning leaders have probably asked themselves. If organizations understand the importance of sales, why do so many still struggle to develop consistently high-performing teams?
Lemire believes the answer lies in what organizations choose to prioritize. Most companies eventually document a sales process because they need consistency. They define the sequence of steps that moves a prospect from initial contact through closing, giving managers a common framework for measuring pipeline activity and forecasting revenue. While that process is valuable, it often becomes the primary focus of enablement efforts, leaving the broader context of selling underdeveloped.
According to Lemire, this creates an imbalance. Organizations teach people what to do next without always helping them understand why they are doing it or providing the supporting resources that make those actions more effective. In many cases, new sales professionals receive a list of required activities but very little guidance on the strategies, conversations, or decision-making skills that help experienced sellers navigate real customer situations.
She illustrates this difference by separating four distinct components of sales enablement. The sales process defines the sequence of activities. The sales playbook serves as the reference library that supports those activities with messaging, competitive positioning, best practices, and practical guidance. Sales methodology provides the philosophy behind customer engagement and helps sellers understand how to approach complex buying situations. Finally, habits provide the personal discipline and behavioral foundation that allow all three elements to work together consistently.
Viewed together, these four pillars create a far more complete enablement strategy than process documentation alone. Organizations that invest equally in all four areas are better positioned to develop sales teams capable of adapting to different customer situations while maintaining consistency in how they represent the business.
One of the most practical ideas discussed throughout the episode is that learning should not end when formal training concludes. While courses and workshops introduce concepts, lasting improvement depends on whether individuals receive ongoing coaching that reinforces those ideas in their daily work.
Lemire explains that much of her consulting practice revolves around helping leaders coach more effectively rather than simply delivering information to employees. Coaching creates opportunities to reinforce productive habits, identify obstacles before they become performance issues, and help individuals apply new techniques in real customer conversations. Instead of measuring success by course completion alone, organizations begin measuring how people actually show up with customers, how consistently they prospect, and how effectively they execute the behaviors that support long-term success.
This shift represents an important evolution for learning and development teams. Traditional training programs often emphasize knowledge acquisition because it is relatively easy to deliver and measure. Behavioral change, however, requires repeated practice, accountability, feedback, and reinforcement over time. Organizations that combine structured learning with ongoing coaching create an environment where new habits can develop gradually rather than being expected to emerge immediately after a training event.
The discussion also highlights the role leaders play in sustaining this momentum. Managers are no longer simply responsible for reviewing sales numbers or monitoring activity levels. They become coaches who help individuals connect daily behaviors with long-term performance, reinforcing the habits that ultimately influence business results.
Another valuable takeaway is the recognition that effective learning rarely depends on a single delivery method. Rather than positioning instructor-led training and digital learning as competing approaches, Lemire describes them as complementary components of a larger learning strategy.
Learning Management Systems, online modules, and virtual learning environments provide efficient ways to deliver foundational knowledge, product education, and prerequisite learning before employees ever enter a classroom. By shifting this foundational content into self-paced learning, organizations free valuable instructor time for discussion, coaching, collaboration, and practical application.
Jeff Walter expands on this idea by emphasizing the continued importance of human interaction. Technology has transformed the way organizations deliver learning, but it has not eliminated the value of people learning together. Conversations, shared experiences, collaborative problem solving, and instructor feedback continue to play an essential role in helping learners apply knowledge within the context of their own work.
For learning leaders, this reinforces a broader principle. The objective is not to choose between digital learning and instructor-led education, but to determine which delivery method best supports each stage of the learning journey. Foundational knowledge can often be delivered effectively through technology, while coaching, discussion, and behavioral development benefit from direct human interaction.
This balanced approach mirrors the broader philosophy behind AIM. Technical knowledge remains important, but sustainable performance develops when organizations combine structured learning with coaching, reinforcement, and opportunities for learners to practice new behaviors over time.
As the conversation draws to a close, Amy Lemire returns to a theme that has quietly connected every topic discussed throughout the episode. While organizations continue to invest in new technologies, updated methodologies, and increasingly sophisticated learning platforms, the greatest return still comes from investing in people.
Her vision for AIM Training & Consulting Inc. is built around changing the way organizations think about sales effectiveness. Rather than viewing training as a cost center or an activity that can be postponed during periods of financial pressure, she believes professional development should be recognized as one of the most valuable investments a business can make. Organizations that consistently develop their people build stronger cultures, more capable leaders, and sales teams that are better prepared to adapt as markets evolve.
This perspective became particularly evident during the pandemic, when many organizations were forced to rethink how they supported employees through uncertainty and rapid change. Research cited during the discussion showed that one of the most effective ways to re-engage and re-motivate sales professionals was through renewed investment in learning, coaching, and sales effectiveness. Instead of reducing development initiatives during challenging times, organizations that continued investing in their people often created stronger foundations for future performance.
Lemire acknowledges that learning budgets are often among the first to be reduced when organizations face financial pressure. She challenges that thinking by suggesting the opposite approach. If people drive business performance, then developing those people should remain one of the highest organizational priorities rather than one of the easiest expenses to eliminate.
One of the lasting impressions from this conversation is that sales enablement is significantly broader than many organizations realize.
For years, enablement has often been associated with product knowledge, CRM adoption, sales content, and formal training programs. Those components remain important, but Lemire presents a much more holistic framework. Sustainable performance emerges when organizations intentionally connect process, playbooks, methodology, coaching, and habit development into a single learning ecosystem rather than treating each as an independent initiative.
This integrated perspective also changes the role of learning leaders.
Instead of focusing exclusively on course creation or content delivery, learning professionals become architects of performance. They help define organizational standards, support managers as coaches, reinforce productive behaviors, and create opportunities for continuous learning long after formal instruction has ended. Success is measured not simply by course completions or attendance, but by whether learning translates into measurable improvements in confidence, consistency, customer conversations, and business outcomes.
The discussion around blended learning reinforces this philosophy. Digital learning, instructor-led experiences, coaching, and self-directed development each contribute something different to the learning process. An LMS can efficiently deliver foundational knowledge and product education before instructor-led sessions begin, allowing valuable classroom time to focus on discussion, application, and coaching. Rather than replacing human interaction, technology creates more opportunities for meaningful human learning experiences by ensuring learners arrive prepared for deeper conversations.
For organizations responsible for developing sales teams, customer-facing professionals, or future leaders, this serves as an important reminder that learning is rarely a single event. It is an ongoing process that combines knowledge, practice, reflection, coaching, and continuous reinforcement.
Amy Lemire’s conversation offers an insightful reminder that sustainable performance is rarely achieved by teaching people one more technique. While sales processes, methodologies, and playbooks all contribute to organizational success, they reach their full potential only when supported by the habits that influence how people think, prepare, communicate, and perform every day.
For learning and development leaders, the episode reinforces an increasingly important lesson. Organizations do not improve simply because new knowledge has been delivered. They improve when that knowledge becomes consistent behavior. Building those behaviors requires thoughtful learning design, effective coaching, measurable development, and a long-term commitment to helping people grow both professionally and personally.
As businesses continue exploring artificial intelligence, digital learning, and new approaches to enablement, the human side of learning remains just as important as the technology itself. Organizations that intentionally develop both skills and habits will be better positioned to create sales teams capable of sustaining high performance long after the initial training has ended.
For more information about AIM Training & Consulting Inc., visit https://aimtandc.com/.
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Jeff Walter (00:05)
Hi, I’m Jeff Walter and welcome back to the Training Impact Podcast, where we explore scaling performance through training infrastructure. My guest today is Amy Lemire. She’s the founder of AIME.
Training and Consulting International, an accomplished learning strategist who helps organizations transform training into a powerful driver of performance and business growth. Amy has a deep expertise in instructional design, workforce development, and learning strategy. She partners with organizations to help build practical, engaging training programs that improve employee capability, strengthen organizational performance, and deliver measurable results. Amy, welcome to the program.
Amy Lemire (00:45)
Hi, Jeff. Thank you for the invitation. I’m excited to be here.
Jeff Walter (00:49)
and so Amy, always like the biographical and how people got where they are. You found it, AIM, training and consulting.
What
was the path that led to that? How did you get to a place where you decide, you know what, I’m going to start a company that’s gonna focus on training consulting? So how’d you how’d you get there?
Amy Lemire (01:05)
Great question, Jeff. Well, I always say that I feel like my life focus has been either sales or professional development. And from a career perspective, I started a sales career right out of college. And during that time, I was a sales field trainer. So that meant that one of the med tech companies I was working for as a sales rep, I carried the sales bag, but then I would get out and mentor and…
coach and work with new hires out in the field. And during that time, the light bulb went off and I thought, wow, I really love this idea of coaching, teaching, training and mentoring. And so what happened was there was someone else in that role at the company I was at and she retired. And then there was an opportunity for me to take the role. So after doing that for several years at three different med tech companies,
I really began to see a vision for myself of wanting to create my own organization that did sales consulting, coaching and training. Because one of the biggest things that I saw missing from most traditional sales approaches is if you think of sales, Jeff, like a bicycle, the front wheel is about your sales skills, your ability to close, your ability to negotiate. But the piece that is missing, I believe, is the focus on professional development. So how to master your
self-disciplined or self-confidence, working with difficult customers, having better work habits. So this is almost like the mindset of selling, whereas the front wheel is almost like the action and tactical side of selling. So when I saw this gap missing, that is really how I created my value proposition for aim training and consulting.
Jeff Walter (02:43)
And so can you help me understand a little bit more about w what that means? ‘Cause I understand the tactical part, but the driving part hit me with that one more time, ’cause I I think I understood what you mean, but I I got it up here in my head, but not down
Amy Lemire (02:59)
Right.
Jeff Walter (02:59)
here in my heart.
Amy Lemire (03:01)
Okay, sure. So the best way I describe this typically is that if you think about it, our thoughts drive our habits, our habits drive our actions, and our actions drive our results. So this is like I call the success equation. And so that’s really what I mean by that philosophy of the back wheel that is an example. Most of the times I was in sales, it was really about, you know, what’s coming in this month? How much is it worth? What…
Are you doing this for our sales performance? I mean, so there was a very high level of accountability to results and there wasn’t as much accountability to how are you showing up with your customers? Why are you not prospecting the way you should be prospecting? So kind of the behavior side of selling is really the piece that I’m bringing to the table that I find is missing from most companies I’ve worked in and also the approaches. And I’m not putting down any of those companies or any of those approaches. I’m just sharing that
Once I figured that out in my personal sales career as a frontline seller, that’s really
Jeff Walter (04:00)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (04:01)
where my sales got to take off. So I did a lot of self-development work with myself and that’s really where the turning point came from being an average to a top sales performer also.
Jeff Walter (04:12)
So so a a lot of times you you would hear that described more as soft skills or or coaching skill like i
Amy Lemire (04:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (04:20)
is that i i i it’s the it’s the power and driver so if I understand correctly, you you’ve got the technical skills, which are the front what you’re calling the front wheel, the tactical, the
Amy Lemire (04:31)
Right.
Jeff Walter (04:32)
the the technical, it’s like
Well, I make ten phone calls or I I I do these six actions, I and I follow this process and good things happen, right? That’s you know,
Amy Lemire (04:42)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (04:43)
I I t I I do it technically, but behind that is a a set of skills that are more intangible, but ultimately much more important and they give
life to the technical skills. Is that my
Amy Lemire (04:57)
Correct.
Jeff Walter (04:58)
or life is the wrong word, but they they bring them to life, they make them more effective. Is that a h you know good way of thinking of it?
Amy Lemire (05:07)
Absolutely. And if I had to boil it down to two words, it would be our habits versus our skills. So the habits piece
Jeff Walter (05:15)
Right.
Amy Lemire (05:16)
is really what’s missing in my perspective.
Jeff Walter (05:19)
Okay. So the ha that the the habits become the okay. So the skills becomes the application of some type of technique. Right? Like I I have a
Amy Lemire (05:27)
Correct.
Jeff Walter (05:28)
s there’s some technique I have learned to do something. In this case, it’s it’s part of sa your your focus is sales. But it’s it’s it’s it’s it it’s a tech it’ that’s why I say technical. It’s like it’s a technique to do something,
Amy Lemire (05:42)
Right.
Jeff Walter (05:42)
a skill to do something. But the habit is the driver that puts the skills to work.
And if you’re just
Amy Lemire (05:49)
Correct.
Jeff Walter (05:50)
if you’re just going through doing this the techniques, you’ll you’ll achieve some success. But backed with a set of habits, it this i am i get am I getting this right? Like backed with a a set of very productive habits, they they
Amy Lemire (06:05)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (06:06)
they make the skills that much more effective. Is
Amy Lemire (06:09)
Correct.
Jeff Walter (06:10)
that the employ the skills to good effect, is maybe a
Too much of a consulting way of saying it, but I used to be a consultant for
Amy Lemire (06:17)
Right.
Jeff Walter (06:18)
twenty years, so it’s hard to get that out of me. So yeah. Yeah.
Amy Lemire (06:20)
I understand. yeah, you’re describing
it very accurately, Jeff.
Jeff Walter (06:24)
Okay. So so now so you you you you embarked on you so you decided to start AIM Consultant. That’s how you ended up there as a as a s if I get it at you were a salesperson, you discovered these habits within yourself,
Amy Lemire (06:37)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (06:37)
and and then and then applied them at the med tech companies to a positive effect for the organization. And then you’re like, I you know, I just wanna do this and so I’m gonna I’m gonna go out, put my shingle out there and and been very successful. So now
When
clients come to you, what are they hoping to achieve?
Amy Lemire (06:59)
Great question. So my elevator statement that I share is I work with leaders and teams to accelerate sales, elevate performance and amplify success to improve your company’s profitability and your team’s productivity. So what that really means is I take the time to understand, my perspective is that I believe sales success in an organization comes from four key pillars. The first pillar
Jeff Walter (07:24)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (07:24)
is having an effective sales process.
The second pillar is having an effective sales playbook. The third is a sales methodology. And then the last is again about having some type of a habits based assessment and also something in which we have a coaching tool to coach the team and the leaders to that back wheel that I was talking about earlier.
Jeff Walter (07:48)
And so what does that look like? Like I I I well let’s take those one at a time. So you said a process, a framework,
Amy Lemire (07:54)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (07:56)
a process, a play playbook,
Amy Lemire (07:58)
Playbook, uh-huh, a sales methodology.
Jeff Walter (08:01)
a methodology, and then the the habits. So I think on the process
Amy Lemire (08:04)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (08:04)
side, I think most folks you know, gang you know, is is is you find do you find that that is usually in good order or or or needs when when you engage a client?
Like if we look at these four things, how d how where where do they need the most help usually?
Amy Lemire (08:20)
Great question, Jeff. What I would say, and interestingly, I was thinking about this this morning. if I did a scorecard approach with a company and if
Jeff Walter (08:29)
Yeah.
Amy Lemire (08:30)
they got 25 points for each of these four quadrants, I find that most companies are somewhere around the 25%. Most companies I work with typically have some type of a sales process, but they’re typically missing a whole sales playbook. They typically don’t have a…
go to market sales methodology and they’re typically not working on coaching their leadership and their team on the success habits that support effective sales productivity, if you will.
Jeff Walter (09:02)
Okay. So so how do you describe what what just as a layman here, playbook and and playbook, process and methodology, I think a lot of people would think
Amy Lemire (09:11)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (09:12)
of them synonymously. So what’s what makes something a process versus a playbook versus a methodology in in your in your vernacular? Like what is that what are they missing
Amy Lemire (09:22)
Okay, so.
Jeff Walter (09:23)
in the play what’s what is a playbook?
Amy Lemire (09:25)
Right, exactly. the playbook, like if you think of a sports team, it, you know, literally
Jeff Walter (09:30)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (09:31)
a playbook, it, you know, in a sales perspective, it would be basically one of the chapters in that playbook would be our step-by-step sales process. So most companies I work with, Jeff, I mean, it can be five steps to seven steps. When I was in capital sales, it was about seven steps, but the whole part of that playbook, it’s kind of like the, the
playbook that the sports team uses out on the field, it’s going to also constitute best practices, best behaviors, managing your sales funnel, how to better work with executive decision makers, how to identify the things that can hold back a sales opportunity. So it’s like the best practices and within that is the process. And then the sales methodology is really about the how we do it.
As an example, my primary methodology that I teach and preach and that I use as a seller was the Challenger sales methodology. A lot of people call that commercial
Jeff Walter (10:25)
Okay.
Amy Lemire (10:26)
teaching, but that’s really when you take an approach. I think one of the reasons that sales gets a bad rap is we sometimes start our conversations with our products, our solutions, our services we offer. Whereas what Challenger gets our team members to do is it gets them to help the customer identify a challenge they have. It gets them to tell a story around it.
It gets them to lead to their solution, not leading the conversation with the solution. So it’s a very methodical six step process. And then last but not least, the habits. The way that I work that part is really through, I offer an assessment called Habit Finder. It’s based on the book called The Greatest Salesman in the World by Ogmandino. So it’s based on what are the top 10 sales behaviors that we’re trying to drive here.
And then the assessment helps us see where either an individual or a team player or we could do a team DNA and see how the whole team is doing with these habits. So does that answer your question as far as the differences between those different elements, like the four pillars?
Jeff Walter (11:30)
Yeah, well well
yeah, well I playing back what what I think I heard is the the the playbook provides the overall framework in which you’re operating, right? It’s like it’s
Amy Lemire (11:40)
Right.
Jeff Walter (11:40)
like here’s our process, here’s our
Amy Lemire (11:43)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (11:43)
value proposition, here’s how you overcome these objections, like it’s it’s got all the parts and pieces. The is the the now help me understand the difference between process and methodology. So
Amy Lemire (11:56)
Yeah, process would be a process. Probably the best example I could give of that is like if I’m going, let’s just say I’m in St. Louis, I’m going to go to Kansas City. So I get my car and I plug in the address where I’m going and it tells me the step by step of how to go, how to get there. So that would be the sales process. And then we talk
Jeff Walter (12:14)
Okay.
Amy Lemire (12:14)
about the methodology. It would be more of, you want to take the route that has the least amount of tollways or do you want to take the route that has
Jeff Walter (12:24)
Okay.
Amy Lemire (12:24)
that has more of a scenic view to it. So it’s kind of the way
Jeff Walter (12:29)
Okay.
Amy Lemire (12:30)
and the how that we’re getting there, if that makes sense.
Jeff Walter (12:33)
All right, all right. So the p the the the playbook is is kind of providing this big you know, this all the pieces and parts and components of
Amy Lemire (12:41)
Right.
Jeff Walter (12:42)
the sale, what you’re selling, why it’s better than a comp you know why it’s better than the competitor, how you address this issue, how you address that issue, what kind of demeanor, all all these pieces, you know, the the entire the like you said, the playbook, right? It’s the whole A to Z of what we’re doing here.
Then the methodology becomes or we’re gonna take that playbook and we’re gonna say, we wanna take the scenic road, or we wanna go the get there the fastest, or you know, we don’t care what
Amy Lemire (13:10)
Right.
Jeff Walter (13:11)
the tolls are, or we, you know, here are the parameters with which we’re going to build a specific process. And then a specific process is: okay, go two miles, make a right, go a mile, make a left, and and
Amy Lemire (13:25)
Yep.
Jeff Walter (13:25)
so on. You know, specific.
directions. And well and and it’s interesting because I wanted to talk about that a little because when you first said it, I found myself going, yeah, yeah, different things. And then my and then
Amy Lemire (13:36)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (13:36)
I went when do people really think of those as different things? Or a lot of people would kind of commingle them as one thing and and
Amy Lemire (13:44)
Right. Right.
Jeff Walter (13:45)
then to sit there and go, well no, my pro my methodology is my process, is my playbook.
Amy Lemire (13:51)
Right,
Jeff Walter (13:52)
Right? Like
Amy Lemire (13:52)
right.
Jeff Walter (13:52)
they’re all one they’re all synonymous and you and it’s interesting how you tease them apart to focus on different elements. You know.
Amy Lemire (14:01)
It is,
I would definitely say it is interesting and to put even more color on this, Jeff, part of the way that I also, when I teach sales methodology to companies or individuals or leaders, every 10 years there’s typically a new sales methodology. So like in the seventies, was spin selling. I think in the eighties and nineties, strategic selling was really hot. And then challenger selling or also called commercial teaching type selling.
It came out somewhere around 2008, 2010, and there’s actually a book that the audience can read called The Challenger Sale by Brent Adamson and Matt Dixon. And so
Jeff Walter (14:35)
Uh-huh.
Amy Lemire (14:36)
that approach still seems to resonate for complex sales. And I want to be upfront and say that the type of training and the companies I work with are in complex sales. So complex sales means it’s a long sales cycle. There’s a few decision makers involved. There’s usually a lot of dollars on the table.
And a simple sale might be if I walked into the Apple store and bought some new AirPods, that’s typically a pick out what I want, give a credit card, shake hands with the salesperson and leave the store. But when we’re talking about complex sales, this is the type of sales that I pretty much work in and then where the challenger approach seems to be the most effective.
Jeff Walter (15:15)
Okay, and so and in the complex sales, I would imagine that there that’s a lot of B to B type of sales. Because you know,
Amy Lemire (15:22)
Definitely.
Jeff Walter (15:23)
when you’re doing B to B it’s almost always a group sale, right? It’s almost
Amy Lemire (15:26)
Right.
Jeff Walter (15:26)
always you know, and and not not just like you y you know, in a B to C where the group might be a couple, like it’s usually a group with divergent goals, right? Finance has one goal,
Amy Lemire (15:38)
exactly different.
Jeff Walter (15:39)
purchasing has another goal, operations has another goal.
Amy Lemire (15:43)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (15:44)
And and and you usually have a couple more zeros attached. So it’s orders of
Amy Lemire (15:48)
Right.
Jeff Walter (15:49)
magnitude bigger and and then therefore takes forever and a day to get it. Being in the selling enterprise software space, I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about, Amy. Yeah, so
Amy Lemire (15:57)
Yeah. I get it. Yeah, we all, I know we all can relate to it, especially this time of
the year when everyone’s taking vacations, you know.
Jeff Walter (16:06)
Yeah, well well
that but that’s well then it’s interesting though to to take the methodology to to to to divvy up things that way, right? To kind of sit there and go, Well here’s here’s the you know universe of or the the the the universe plays that answer all the different questions. Now how do we put those to action? We want some type of method to put those into action and then we take that method and create a specific process.
And then it’s really interesting what and the habits I make more sense to me as different, right? When you first laid it out. Because it’s like,
Amy Lemire (16:43)
Right.
Jeff Walter (16:44)
okay, that’s that’s you know, I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do is this and then I you know, I I have a habit of doing these things, right? It’s a pr it’s more per it’s a more personal thing. You know, I develop you like there’s not you know. whereas but then it’s interesting your
Your cr critique of what you usually see going into some into some place is like they’ve got the step-by-step process, but it’s lacking the context of method and lacking the resources of playbook. And then it
Amy Lemire (17:17)
Right.
Jeff Walter (17:18)
doesn’t address at all the individual habits necessary to be successful. It’s it’s more like if you just do A, B, and C, you’ll be successful. Don’t worry about the context. Don’t worry about the the
the chest of resources available to you, just do A, B, C,
Amy Lemire (17:35)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (17:36)
and your habit is do A and then do B and then do C. That’s the only habit you need to have.
Amy Lemire (17:41)
Correct, yep.
Jeff Walter (17:43)
And and so it’s so it’s why why do you think that your that client wh why do you think organizations end up with the the details of a process? You’re you’re just
Amy Lemire (17:55)
Yeah.
Jeff Walter (17:56)
creating all these thoughts in my head.
But
I’m always know, I’m always interested in how the organization evolves. And so I’m wondering how why do you think they end up with the detailed process without the context of the method and the resources of the playbook and then the habits of the individual? Like why
Amy Lemire (18:17)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (18:17)
it seem it seems a little backwards a little bit. Does that make sense?
Amy Lemire (18:20)
Exactly. Exactly. think part of it too, there’s, there’s a lot of reasons, but in my opinion, I think some of the top reasons that this hasn’t evolved to this level yet in that, you know, there may be a lag in this market is that I think number one, the pandemic had a big play on this. So I went to a Gartner conference way back in like, I think it was 2022 kind of near the back end of the pandemic and they had done some research.
And they noticed this new phenomenon called seller
Jeff Walter (18:50)
Yeah.
Amy Lemire (18:50)
drag, which means that sellers are, you know, burned out. They’re not as motivated as they have been in the past. And a lot of that got us to see that there is a behavioral side of sales effectiveness. And there’s also kind of, again, the skill side, but the part
Jeff Walter (19:05)
Right.
Amy Lemire (19:06)
that was really hit hard during the pandemic was definitely the behavior side because we were locked in our houses, our home became our work, our work became our home. And
Unfortunately, a lot of people lost their livelihood during that time. I, you know, that I almost a mental health crisis in a sense for some, but I think part of that realization came out of it came the fact that we need to do more as companies and leaders to empower our teams to be better than just sales skills. We also need to arm them with resilience and confidence, self-discipline. Some of these, some of these habits that have really gone by the wayside. So I think that’s part of it.
And I think the other side of it too is probably the biggest challenge I run into in some companies is the fear of change and the fear of doing something different. So, you know, that’s probably no matter what we’re selling, whether it’s, you know, sales training and enablement like me or selling a solution or products and services, you know, the number one objection that it’s been shown, it’s not your competition, it’s inaction and indecision. It’s companies
Jeff Walter (20:08)
Yes.
Amy Lemire (20:09)
just saying,
There’s a way we’ve done it, there’s a way we’re going to keep doing it. And there’s so many people involved behind the scenes that to get everybody to agree to look at a different way and a better way of doing it, I often coach teams that we need to make the pain of the same bigger than the pain of making a change. And that’s the key to it. And that’s sometimes easier said than done. So that’s my humble opinion about why more companies aren’t doing this.
Jeff Walter (20:32)
Yeah, well y you hit on a couple of really interesting things there. because well well first taking the last thing first.
Amy Lemire (20:40)
Mm.
Jeff Walter (20:41)
I think that I I I just think that’s real b I I’ve always said, and this was when I w in consulting and now in software, it’s do nothing is our biggest competitor. It’s it’s
Amy Lemire (20:51)
Right.
Jeff Walter (20:52)
you know, like for us in the LMS space, it’s not cornerstone, it’s not Ducebo, it’s not whatever the
s you sexy product de jour is it’s do nothing. Yeah, we lose
Amy Lemire (21:00)
Right. Correct.
Jeff Walter (21:03)
we half of our losses are to do nothing. Right? Or or keep
Amy Lemire (21:06)
Exactly.
Jeff Walter (21:07)
the same, whatever the same is. And and so that’s an interesting insight. And and then earlier e when you talked about the the la the habits, I think that’s I was having a convers it it’s it seems like there’s a resurgence going on
in what is usually referred to as soft skills, but I’ve heard people call power skills. And I think of it more
Amy Lemire (21:31)
sure.
Jeff Walter (21:32)
and I I think of it more as character development.
Amy Lemire (21:35)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (21:36)
and that’s I think w you know and it it it’s not just in corporate, I think it goes back to K twel and and university. We’ve we focused so much on on skill training
And and and and that it’s the the why you know the why you’re doing it and what the habits are just seem to have gotten short the short end of the stick and and and now you’re doing this technical skill without understanding why the context. Yeah and I it’s it’s
Amy Lemire (22:06)
Correct.
Jeff Walter (22:07)
interesting. Like I was interested viewing D Dan Aldrich, he’s at Christian Brothers Automotive and they do collision repair. It’s a franchise.
Half of their and they’re and they’re a faith-based organization or you know heavily influenced, but half of their training to the technicians doing collision repair is is is soft skill based. And
Amy Lemire (22:29)
nice.
Jeff Walter (22:30)
and and their performance and so it’s it’s a is they their franchisees are you know killing it financially.
The people working there are in the front yeah, like financially, everybody’s doing really, really well. And
Amy Lemire (22:48)
Right.
Jeff Walter (22:49)
and and you know, talking to him, he was like the the the belief it’s mirroring what you’re saying is yes,
Amy Lemire (22:54)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (22:55)
you can you can do the t the skill training and it’s you have to do the skill training. You have to know how to do this thing, whatever this but you need to underst but
But you need the the soft skills behind it, the understanding you’re working with other people, even if you’re, you know, doing automotive collision repair, you’re always engaged
Amy Lemire (23:14)
Right.
Jeff Walter (23:15)
with other humans. And how do you work with other humans and how do you
Help them help you and and convince them to help like all these all these soft skills are power of persuasion, how to how to you know, habits of good work habits. And so it’s really it’s really interesting. I just I’m seeing this thing pop, pop this theme pop
Amy Lemire (23:37)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (23:38)
up again and again and again. And it’s just and so when your when your clients
are engaging you when you’re when you’re when you do this type of training, like I’m going back to what you said, they seem to be really good on process, but you know they’re they could use a lot of help on playbook and methodology and habits. And so when you
Amy Lemire (23:57)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (23:58)
when you when they engage you, what what do they what kind of what kind of results do they kind of s would they see? What hap what happens when they go through an engagement? What what are they what do they what what what do they get from a results standpoint?
Amy Lemire (24:12)
Yeah, that’s a great question. Also, I typically what I do and this is what I coach a lot of my my sales teams on when I’m doing my work with them is that I do a lot of discovery upfront and I try to find out first, what are the problems that the organization is having? mean, typically it’s inconsistent sales performance or it might be, you we don’t have any training or it could be something along the lines of we’re watching over the years, you know, our numbers decline.
and they can’t figure out why and it’s frustrating. And so what I typically do first is after I’ve done that discovery is I take what the whole, let’s just say the holes in the floor are, and then that’s how I create what are the outcomes we want to achieve. So if it’s inconsistency, let’s create consistency. If it’s variable performance, let’s create consistent performance.
So, you know, one of the case and point examples is I have a company right now that I’m going to be doing some work with and I want to be upfront and say that my work is customized and
Jeff Walter (25:14)
Uh-huh.
Amy Lemire (25:15)
it’s based on the needs and the problems of the organization. Not, yes, there are themes that kind of come up, you know, the same cast of characters that I just said, but I have one company right now and they said, well, you know, our numbers are usually really slow in the summer. So we’re going to put off working with you for a couple of months. So.
That might sound like a great idea because yeah, when cashflow is down, we might not want to spend money. And maybe we also have a story that we’re, have a habit of thinking that our sales are slow in the summer. Whereas what if we put some of the pieces in place that I talked about a few minutes ago, you know, this company in particular, they don’t have a sales process. They don’t have a playbook. They don’t really have a methodology. They’re not really working on habits. So with that, yeah, you are probably going to have some really down months, if not a tough year.
So what I try to get companies to see is that part of the reason that they’re not performing is that they’re missing structure. And structure, by the way, is one of the six habits I teach. So if we don’t
Jeff Walter (26:09)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (26:09)
really have a structure in those four pillars I talked about, it’s really gonna be, pardon my French, a crap shoot if we’re gonna make our numbers or not, or what our performance is gonna look like. So that’s typically how I put my engagements out. But I think if I had to boil down everything,
that I commit to, it’s typically to accelerate sales and elevate performance, amplify success. So usually that comes out to be, I have a company right now, they do this much in sales and now they want to make that much in sales with a new division. Okay, so that’s what we’re really focused in on. How are we going to get from here to there? And we’re focusing on putting these four pillars in so the team can get up to this level. Does that answer your
Jeff Walter (26:49)
And and when you put those
Amy Lemire (26:50)
question?
Jeff Walter (26:51)
yeah, when you when you put those pillars in, what what form does that take? Is it is it, you know, instruction led training? Is it is is it like how how do once you once you’ve helped them identify it, okay, here’s the playbook, here’s the methodology, here’s the process, here are the habits, how do you inculcate that into the organization? Right? Like ’cause I can see on the one hand, like we do that, we put it in a bunch of books, and the books are on a shelf back there.
Right.
Amy Lemire (27:16)
Right, right.
Jeff Walter (27:18)
like how how does it how do you how do you actually inculcate it into the organization so that it’s actionable?
Amy Lemire (27:24)
Okay, yes, so this is, it’s interesting, because this is something I also teach sales teams and leaders is there’s really three elements of a successful closed sale or a successful opportunities. Number one, we’ve got to find a why now. So when I’m talking to decision makers, there needs to be something, there needs to be some kind of pain somewhere. Either we’re not making our numbers or we missed our revenue by X dollars this last year. Just, there’s gotta be some kind of problem first.
The second thing is we need to be talking to the right people. So a lot of times in my world, I want to give all due respect to human resources and that part of the business. But typically the people that I’m talking to happen to be the vice president of sales, chief revenue officer. It could be depending on the size of the company, the CEO or the COO. But these are the people that kind of own this problem of let’s make revenue. And then the last thing that we need to understand is the customer’s buying process. So
Is this something that’s budgeted for this year? Is this something you’re looking at for next year? Are you just calling me to get a quote because you’re talking to 10 other companies and you want to keep everybody honest, but what’s the real process that we’re in right now? So I tackle my opportunities the same way. I really want to make sure in that discovery stage there’s a problem that I can solve. I want to make sure that we have the right people at the table we’re talking to. And then I want to make sure I understand their buying process.
because my urgency is gonna be different if this is something they’re talking about doing in two years versus we need to get this going. Sometimes it’s, we need to get this kicked off in the next three weeks, because our fiscal year starts in six months and we gotta have this ready before then. So really, we gotta make sure that we understand where we stand in all three of those areas. That would be an example of something I would put in a sales playbook, so that our sellers are also acting the same way.
Jeff Walter (29:10)
Okay. And and then the and then the form in which that gets translated transmitted to the sales staff, i is that d do you find does that get put into e learning or does the is it is it instructor led you know, kind of instruct led training? How how does it how does all that knowledge and process get into the
Amy Lemire (29:30)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (29:31)
minds and hands of the the salespeople themselves? What have you seen be most effective in that?
Amy Lemire (29:38)
Sure, so it really varies between just in-person instructor-led training to a lot of work these days. Just I think post pandemic, we’re doing a lot more remote on Zoom Teams or Google Meet, wherever it might be. And then the last way would be through a system such as an online learning platform. It seems like they’re…
It really, a lot of the times for me, depends on the type of company I’m working with and their budget and their infrastructure of how that’s going to look and play out.
Jeff Walter (30:12)
Yeah, it i it I asked the question because it’s interesting, especially with AI and and AI learning technologies and and
Amy Lemire (30:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (30:20)
and that like I think one of the th the the challenges that I see my clients facing, but also just you know, everyone just trying to figure out is what’s the right modality of of communicating certain things.
And like on the one hand, like I see things with AI-enabled tools. And I kind of feel like I’m back in 20 years ago with the emergence of e-learning. Right? It’s like
Amy Lemire (30:46)
yeah.
Jeff Walter (30:47)
like there’s this new technology for commute, you know, for conveying knowledge to folks that can be highly effective, but then but then at the same time I’m talking to other folks and they’re like
Yeah, you know, you get these cohorts together and they learn from each other and it’s so much more effective. It has such it’s so much more impactful because
Amy Lemire (31:07)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (31:07)
and and and so that that’s why I was asking that question. I because I could see it no in you know, if we want to think of like AI enabled, traditionally learning and instructor led, like I could see I could see though I I could see once you’ve mapped out the habits.
the playbook, the methodology and the process, I could I could see it being mapped into multiple mod modalities.
Amy Lemire (31:35)
Right.
Jeff Walter (31:36)
but I you know but I’m I’m curious as to what what you’ve seen as being more effect you know highly effective. And it sound I think I heard you said that you know like in like not not necessarily in person but instructor led, like humans
Amy Lemire (31:53)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (31:53)
interacting with other humans.
Amy Lemire (31:55)
Right,
Jeff Walter (31:56)
is
Amy Lemire (31:56)
right.
Jeff Walter (31:56)
is is i is highly effective in trying to transmit this in in some way or or you know, some type of combination or some blended learning, but you know, is that
Amy Lemire (32:07)
Yeah, blended learning,
definitely. And then, know, an LMS too, of course. mean, so just some of the, I would say that some of the companies I work with with deeper pockets have an LMS. you know, so I really, again, when I was an in-house sales trainer in a couple of medtech companies, we really leveraged that LMS a lot for the pre-work for the new hire class,
Jeff Walter (32:29)
Right.
Amy Lemire (32:29)
because there was so much content to go through over a week and a half.
really making sure people understood the skills and the product knowledge and everything they could before the training. It’s a great way to also hold the team accountable if they completed the work or they did not complete the work too. But I do think also
Jeff Walter (32:45)
Right. So so
Amy Lemire (32:46)
at times it’s good to get the people together in person. think that’s, I don’t see that as much as I did in the past. And I think again, a lot of it is because we figured out we can do so much more remotely, which I think it has it. In my humble opinion, I think it’s got its pros and cons. mean,
saves a lot of money to work from home and not travel and do things remotely. And I also feel like there is that human connection where people do like to still get back together.
Jeff Walter (33:10)
Yeah, well and and and I’m a fan of well, I’m a fan of instructor led, and I’m fan of in person. And it and and one of the things I I listen this had nothing to do with learning and development, but I remember about a year or two ago listen listening to this podcast and they were talking about the information that humans absorb. And and they were they were actually talking about emotions. And what was fascinating was that your cognitive
Your conscious, your cognitive brain, your conscious brain can process like here’s something ridiculous, like 10 bits of information a second, or something ridiculously
Amy Lemire (33:46)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (33:47)
this this much. But
Amy Lemire (33:48)
Right.
Jeff Walter (33:49)
your but your body absorbs megabits of information per second. And they were saying and they were so it’s like a million times more, right? Like, or 10 million or whatever, whatever the math was there. But it was like
Double double-digit bits versus billions of bits. And and and this had nothing to do with learning development, but they were saying that basically your emotions are the low-resolution processing of those billions of bits of information while your rational cognitive mind is processing the 10 bits of information, right?
Amy Lemire (34:24)
Right,
Jeff Walter (34:24)
And so
Amy Lemire (34:24)
right.
Jeff Walter (34:25)
you’re you’re able to cognitively, rationally process this much information in your thinking brain, but the rest of you is processing a million times that information and it’s giving it to you in this low resolution emotional state, whether it’s euphoria or sadness or whatever, it’s response to all this other information. And and anyway, going back to in-person, and I’m a I’m a proponent of in-person.
Like what we’re doing now is really great because
Amy Lemire (34:53)
Mm? Right.
Jeff Walter (34:55)
you know, I can I can see you and I can hear you. And so I can
Amy Lemire (35:01)
Right.
Jeff Walter (35:01)
I I got two different senses working and it and and when I’m look and even though I’m listening to you and processing, my body is still absorbing a lot of visual information that
Amy Lemire (35:13)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (35:13)
I’m not even conscious that I’m processing it, right? It’s the it’s the little things like, you know.
your facial expressions and am I on Q, am I off Q, you know, and and all that kind of stuff. But then when you’re in person, you just get that you but a but but you get another set of orders of magnitude more information when I’m in person with you. Right?
Amy Lemire (35:32)
Right, right.
Jeff Walter (35:34)
And and therefore I’m able to absorb literally absorb a lot more information. And so anyway, just I’m sorry to go down that diatribe. But but I think
Amy Lemire (35:45)
I get it.
Jeff Walter (35:46)
it’s
But I think it’s really interesting because I it you know, it you know, having gone through the e learning revolution, the blended learning revolution, and now the AI lear revolution, I think they have their pieces and parts. And
Amy Lemire (35:57)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (35:58)
but I still think that you that that in person has a huge value if we can tease out where it has its highest ROI. Because it is it is ex it is, you know, you know.
This
is ex you know, this like we’re doing right now is expensive in that it’s taking two humans’ time. But if we were
Amy Lemire (36:18)
Right, I get it.
Jeff Walter (36:19)
but if we were to meet, it would be even more expensive than if we were but
Amy Lemire (36:22)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (36:23)
but then we’re getting a lot more value out of this because we’re able to play off of each other. It’s anyway, it’s interesting. I I go I’m sorry,
Amy Lemire (36:29)
Right, I agree.
Jeff Walter (36:31)
I go down these rabbit holes of of how how do we do this, how do we do it highly effectively and and and have a big impact. And it’s and it’s interesting. And I think there’s a lot of value to.
cohorts and learning off of other people, you
Amy Lemire (36:42)
Oh, I agree. Right.
Jeff Walter (36:44)
know.
Amy Lemire (36:44)
agree. 100%. For sure.
Jeff Walter (36:46)
So
so okay. sorry to go down that rabbit hole, but it was it’s interesting.
Amy Lemire (36:52)
All good.
Jeff Walter (36:53)
So so so where are you guys going from here?
Amy Lemire (36:56)
Great question again. I would say that my vision, Jeff, is to really change the way the world thinks about sales effectiveness and to really get the world to see that, as I talked about, it takes four pillars. But I think the most often neglected pillar is the one about habits. And as we move forward, I see my company continuing to grow, continuing to have other trainers doing international work, and really just
continuing to really help companies get out of their own way and invest. one of the favorite things I have is the best investment we can make is in ourselves and our learning. And again, the pandemic proved that the other side of that study I didn’t mention is that one of the ways that we can get people reinvigorated and re-motivated again is through training and sales effectiveness and really investing in our team’s talent. And I think if all companies knew that, that that investment will help.
performance and productivity, think more companies would be doing that. And for some reason, whatever it is, it does seem sometimes as a training and effectiveness and development sometimes gets to be that first thing that gets cut when budgets are cut or, you know, we need to cut corners somewhere. And I think the way I’d like the world to see it is completely different, that this is the best investment we can make in our team and that if anything, that should be the top of the list.
Jeff Walter (38:18)
So so Amy, we talked a lot about process playbook and methodology and and that. Let I’d like to switch gears a little and and focus on on habits, ’cause you just brought up habits. so and habits are an interesting thing. They’re
And they have to do with the wiring in the brain. But
Amy Lemire (38:36)
Right.
Jeff Walter (38:37)
how do you how does one what like it’s first you gotta figure out what habits, right? And if we use
Amy Lemire (38:44)
huh.
Jeff Walter (38:45)
if we use health, it’s like exercise and eat right.
Amy Lemire (38:49)
Right.
Jeff Walter (38:49)
We know what the strategy is, right? That’s that’s the method, right? Like
Amy Lemire (38:54)
Right.
Jeff Walter (38:55)
eat healthy and exercise. And it’s within this playbook of
I got the gym, I’ve got all these other tools. but having the habit of actually eating right and exercise like how like now you’re talking about human behavioral change and and
Amy Lemire (39:12)
Bye.
Jeff Walter (39:13)
that’s that’s really hard. So how do you how does your organization help your clients and and their sales force achieve
those habits. You know, identifying them is one thing, but having them practice so that they do become habitual habitual, you do create those
Amy Lemire (39:30)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (39:31)
pathways through the brain. How did what what have you seen be effective there?
Amy Lemire (39:36)
Here for the habits, it’s typically, you know, it’s funny because it reminds me of a sales process that typically when I focus on the habits, as I said, the first step is for people to take the habit finder assessment. At
Jeff Walter (39:47)
Right.
Amy Lemire (39:48)
the end of this, I can provide a link for that. That is the first step. The second step is I debrief with them on the results of what it shows. And then the third piece is I either coach, I follow a set curriculum of about 10 sessions that are about 45 minutes to an hour piece or
If a company wants me to come in and do an eight hour workshop or a two day workshop, I can do that also. typically what most companies do that I work with right now is a lot of them are starting with their leadership team. So we’re coaching the leadership team as a group or we’re I have just as an example, I have one company that I’m coaching the general managers one on one, but then the regional sales directors were coaching them in groups. They’re all together in a group. And then I have individual like quick.
30 minute check-in sessions to talk one-on-one about what’s going on. So I’m following a process. I’m following a curriculum. then basically what happens at the end of that time is people retake that assessment and they can see where they stand. The six habits we started with, we can see how they measure up and the six habits after they’ve completed the program. And 95, actually probably, I don’t want to oversell myself here, but.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone retake the assessment or their scores went down. It’s pretty typical that at least, you know, two to three to four to sometimes six habits all shift forward as a result of them having done that work. And then that can translate and improve sales results, productivity, projects getting finished. Again, I set individual goals with each person before we go into the engagement. So if
Jeff Walter (41:24)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (41:24)
somebody says I want to improve our sales or whatever it is.
that’s what we measure at the end. Did we accomplish that? So does that make sense?
Jeff Walter (41:33)
Yeah, well ’cause it’s it’s I mean, yes, it does and I think it’s you know, getting into what we just talked about earlier, it it’s you know, there are some things that require that that heavy human interaction and and habit changing is what like having a coach to help you
guide you through that with some tools
Amy Lemire (41:52)
Right.
Jeff Walter (41:52)
like like like the habit finder. I’m assuming that with habit finder, what what what are you what with habit finder, what are you actually assessing or what are you getting out of that? You said there are these six habits. Is it is it the degree to which
Amy Lemire (42:03)
Yeah, yeah, great question.
Jeff Walter (42:05)
you’re implementing those habits or what what do you get what
Amy Lemire (42:08)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (42:08)
is what is it actually assessing
Amy Lemire (42:11)
Yeah, so the six habits that we measure and work with and teach that drive sales effectiveness. there’s three habits that are what we call inner world habits. And then there’s three that are outer world. So the inner world habits are goal setting and achieving. It’s also about life happiness or fulfillment, feeling like I’m on the right mission and the right path at the right time. And then the last one is a big one, it’s self-confidence.
So those are the
Jeff Walter (42:35)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (42:35)
three inner world habits. And then outer world habits are number one, how effective am I at connecting with and working with people? Number two, how effective am I with my work habits, but getting things done and being effective in my work day to day? And then the last habit is self-discipline and structure. So there’s three outer world and three inner world. that’s what we, people take the assessment and they see where they stand in all six of those areas. And then the curriculum we follow,
has each habit laid out separately that we study. So we help people identify where their shortfalls are. We also help them strengthen what they’re already doing well. And that’s based on a concept that our brain has a quality called neuroplasticity, which means our thought habits can change. So if I’m a procrastinator and I’m aware of that and that shows up on my assessment, well, you know, our teachings will teach that person techniques and ways to get through that.
and to get better at that. And we are always replacing negative habits with positive habits. So that’s just one example of a thought habit, if that makes sense.
Jeff Walter (43:39)
Okay. So s
yeah, no, well so that the habit finder is is basically you’re looking at these six habits and it’s
Amy Lemire (43:46)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (43:46)
if I understand it’s it’s it’s assessing the degree to which you are practicing those habits or how habitual those habits are in you, right? And
Amy Lemire (43:54)
Right, correct, yes.
Jeff Walter (43:56)
and and then you know, if I’m you know low in one of them,
Amy Lemire (44:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (44:01)
then it’s like I gotta work on that. To work on that it’s it’s
from it’s re you know, it’s the neuroplasticity, it’s like, well, I’ve got to develop the pathway I’ve got to reinforce the pathway for that habit. And in doing
Amy Lemire (44:15)
Right. Cruts.
Jeff Walter (44:17)
so I usually have to remove an ex or y you never really remove, but I have to circumvent or or you know route around a negative habit that has established its own pathway. Is that not without getting
Amy Lemire (44:31)
Exactly. Yep.
Jeff Walter (44:33)
too
neurosciencey about it. I like getting neurosciencey about it, but I find well I find that stuff really interesting. I well well it it’s it
Amy Lemire (44:36)
Correct. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a great way to describe it. Yeah, that’s, you described it well.
Jeff Walter (44:42)
it it’s i yeah, but well it’s interesting because it it you know I just find I I just find so many things like that fascinating. Well I I
Amy Lemire (44:51)
Right, I do too. I do too. It’s probably why I’m involved in this work. Yep.
Jeff Walter (44:56)
you know like I remember you just talking about like well because it’s not just the neuroplasticity, it’s also the fact that
It’s the interaction between your brain and your body also. Like you were talking
Amy Lemire (45:06)
Right.
Jeff Walter (45:06)
about you’re talking about self-confidence, right? As one of the habits.
Amy Lemire (45:09)
Mm-hmm, sure.
Jeff Walter (45:10)
And you know, and and one of the studies I saw years ago was the the relationship, the way the body can affect the brain and its pathways, and the brain can affect the body. Right? So self-confidence.
Amy Lemire (45:23)
Right.
Jeff Walter (45:24)
Does all this good, you know, you release all these chemicals and you stand taller and you know you’re you’re you’re more like this, right? You stand tall and erect and
Amy Lemire (45:33)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (45:34)
and and and because of the confidence. And this at the same time, I then this study just blew me away years ago. If you are not self-confident.
And you strike the Wonder Woman pose or the Superman pose, pick which one you want,
Amy Lemire (45:48)
Right.
Jeff Walter (45:49)
where you stand straight with your shoulders back and head up. It actually does the exact same thing to your brain that your brain does to your body when you’re confident. It makes you more self-confident and starts wiring your brain into self-confidence because you put your body in a position of what it of what confidence does to your body. It’s
Amy Lemire (46:11)
Right.
Jeff Walter (46:11)
bizarre.
I think it’s just bizarre.
Amy Lemire (46:14)
Yeah, it does sound really interesting.
Jeff Walter (46:16)
Yeah, and it’s say is like if you if you and it was and they study folks like if you do the Wonder Woman pose for like ten minutes in the morning, it’s like it changes
Amy Lemire (46:23)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (46:24)
your neuropsychology. It’s just like you go, wow, that’s weird. But
Amy Lemire (46:27)
Yeah, that’s interesting.
Jeff Walter (46:29)
yeah, and but it but it gets back to the habits, right? Like the you can change the habits, you can physically do things even though you don’t feel that way.
But then you feel that way because you physically like you and then you start rewiring the brain with the neuroplasticity. It’s just it’s really it’s so cool. I’m sorry.
Amy Lemire (46:49)
Yeah, I agree.
100%.
Jeff Walter (46:52)
That’s fun fun stuff. So but anyway, we were so those so th so the w the way in which you help them w what I liked about what you said is if I understand correctly, to develop the habits is you you got the habit finders, you identify the habits that they’re strong at, the habits that they’re weak at, you come up with
Amy Lemire (47:12)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Walter (47:13)
an individual strategy, and then you said something in in passing that I think is really important, which was
And then you have the one on one coaching sessions to
Amy Lemire (47:22)
Right.
Jeff Walter (47:23)
address how that individual can start to improve that habit versus the another individual. You know, you and I might both score low on one of the habits, but the way in which the path I need to improve that habit might be different than the path you need to improve that habit because of those other blockers, right? It’s
Amy Lemire (47:42)
Right. Correct. Yes.
Jeff Walter (47:45)
very interesting. Yeah.
And then that all leads to higher performance, which is really cool. on
a separate note, just curiosity, as you’ve gone through this, has has the training impacted other facets of the people’s of people’s lives? Have you ever gotten any feedback on that?
Amy Lemire (48:02)
absolutely. Yeah,
absolutely. mean, the way that I see it, Jeff, that we always say we have our work life and then we have our personal life. And at the end of the day, you know, everything intertwines together. So if we’re not having a great personal life, we might be having a great work life. If work life isn’t going well, that’s going to affect our personal life. So when I work with people, it’s very normal and ordinary that we do talk about things that are going on outside of work because it all
intertwines together. And so a lot of what we talk about too is about our beliefs, our stories, our past. A lot of that, it impacts how we’re showing up today. So, you if we have negative beliefs about ourselves or we’ve had things in our past that we’re still struggling with, all of that affects our energy and how we show up. that’s why people will ask me at times if I’m a counselor or a therapist and I’m not,
Jeff Walter (48:51)
Ha ha ha.
Amy Lemire (48:52)
even though it feels like that a lot of times I’ve been doing this work for seven years now and I was my own first student of it.
when I was a student in 2018 and then got certified in it. But at the end of the day, it’s all life, whether we’re talking about our personal or our business life.
Jeff Walter (49:08)
There’s just life.
Amy Lemire (49:09)
Right, exactly.
Jeff Walter (49:11)
when they develop these soft skills in their work life, they translate over into their personal life.
And I’ve heard similar th like like you just mentioned of we started teaching
Amy Lemire (49:22)
Right.
Jeff Walter (49:22)
these these soft skills, these habits, and next thing I know, you know, somebody’s thanking me because they resolved some family issue that’s been plaguing them for years. They finally
Amy Lemire (49:32)
Right.
Jeff Walter (49:33)
went out and did something that they’ve been wanting to do, but now they have the confidence to do it. And it had nothing to do with work. And,
Amy Lemire (49:41)
Right, exactly.
Jeff Walter (49:42)
you know, it’s just it’s and and it which goes back to
You know, I just think that that we’ve so focused as a society on those technical skills, what I call technical skills, but skills based training, and not enough on the the human development, you know, the things we’ve been talking about that it just I I think it’s I think we’re missing a lot of human potential because of it. So it’s it’s really cool to hear folks like you out there developing that in you know, and you’re not a counselor.
Amy Lemire (50:13)
Nahahaha
Jeff Walter (50:13)
Yeah,
yeah. But but but but seeing how you know it has a huge impact, that type of training can have a huge impact on the business and then actually helps people in their personal life as well. It’s just it’s just amazing. It’s very cool. So
Amy Lemire (50:28)
Right, it does. It does. Thank you.
Jeff Walter (50:33)
yeah. So A Amy is we’re we’re coming up on the time here.
Is there anything else you’d like to share with folks? I’ve I’ve been peppering you with a bunch of questions. I want to make sure you know if there’s anything else you want to share.
Amy Lemire (50:44)
I’ll share that, you know, I do have two books that people can find on Amazon. My first book is called From Zero to Sales Hero, How to Accelerate Your Sales in 90 Days or Less. And then my second book I wrote, Jeff, is From Zero to Speaker Hero, How to Achieve Fame, Fun and Fortune as a Speaker or Trainer. So those are on Amazon if anyone’s interested and that’s another thing I hadn’t shared yet.
Jeff Walter (51:11)
what prompted you to write those books?
Amy Lemire (51:13)
Well, the book from Zero to Sales Hero, actually wrote, I went to a seminar and there was someone talking about how you can really establish yourself by writing a book. So that was part of the impetus for starting the company, Trending and Consulting back in 2014 because we wanted it to look like a branded book instead of just somebody writing a book. So I wrote that book, the first chapter of the book, I don’t want to give it away to the whole audience, but I’ll basically share the short story is,
I was on sales probation and I talk about how I was able to go from like 3 % of my quota to 128 % in 90 days. And then the rest of the book is like what I believe to be the 10 most important principles to effective selling. And that was kind of part of that transition period when I was wanting to see myself go from being a sales professional to a sales enablement leader. So that was
Jeff Walter (52:04)
Mm-hmm.
Amy Lemire (52:05)
kind of at that same time.
Jeff Walter (52:06)
Fasting. And and then so one book was not enough. You had to do it again. Because it takes a lot of energy to write a book.
Amy Lemire (52:10)
Yeah. Yeah. And it does.
It does. mean, my second book was really about how I overcame my fear of public speaking by joining Toastmasters. And I shared my journey, but I also share again what I believe to be the most important parts of being an effective speaker, presenter, facilitator, and, you know, best practices around that.
Jeff Walter (52:31)
Well, so we’ll make sure we include some links in the show notes to that. So if if folks are
Amy Lemire (52:36)
Okay.
Jeff Walter (52:37)
interested in those books we’ll we’ll get that out there. And you said it’s on Amazon, so we’ll make
Amy Lemire (52:41)
Yes.
Jeff Walter (52:41)
sure we get those. And and Amy, if if folks want to get a hold of you or AIM Cont Training Consulting, w how do they
Amy Lemire (52:47)
Sure.
Jeff Walter (52:47)
get a hold of you?
Amy Lemire (52:48)
Sure. The best way, my website is www.aim.com. And for people that want to take the habit finder assessment, is www.habitfinder.com forward slash a lemur, a l e i r e, for anyone interested in taking that assessment I was talking about. It is free.
Jeff Walter (53:14)
Okay, and we’ll make sure we get those in the show notes as well so it makes it easier for folks to find it.
Amy Lemire (53:20)
Perfect.
Jeff Walter (53:20)
Hey Amy, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to chat with me. I I greatly and chat with me again. we had a great time at ATD and
Amy Lemire (53:28)
Thank you.
Jeff Walter (53:29)
and and and it was just fabulous talking to you again. So I appreciate your time.
Amy Lemire (53:34)
Yeah, sure, Jeff. Thanks for the invitation. It was great connecting with you again. I enjoyed the conversation.
Jeff Walter (53:39)
Yep. And to everybody out there, thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you next time. Bye bye.